https://insidehmcts.blog.gov.uk/accessible-justice-courts-and-digital-services-for-all-podcast-transcript/
Accessible Justice: courts and digital services for all - podcast transcript
[English] - [Cymraeg]
Liz Bryant:
Hello and welcome to this Inside HMCTS podcast. I'm Liz Bryant from the communications team at H.M. Courts and Tribunals Service. When people need to come to one of our courts or tribunals, or use our online services, it's important that everyone can access justice. Some people may need extra support or assistance. At HMCTS, we’re committed to removing common barriers people may face to make sure they can access justice at an equal level.
Today we're talking about how we do just that. Whether that's working to make our court buildings accessible for everyone, providing reasonable adjustments or helping people to use online services.
I'm talking with Mike Williams, Deputy Director of Service Excellence at HMCTS, whose work includes improving access to courts and tribunals. Hello, Mike.
Mike Williams:
Hi, Liz. Great to be here.
Liz Bryant:
I'm also joined by Delivery Director Lisa John and Head of Change, Michelle Kelly, who are working at the Royal Courts of Justice in London to improve support for court users with accessibility needs. Hello, Lisa and Michelle.
Lisa John:
Hi Liz
Michelle Kelly:
Hi, Liz. Thank you for having us.
Liz Bryant:
And also with us today is Barbara Suarez, one of our advisors from the digital support service who helps people access support when filling out online forms independently, and Rosie Deigan from the We Are Group, an organisation which supports people who don't have the digital skills to fill out online forms independently. They're going to talk about how we're helping people who need support to use our online services.
Hello, Barbara.
Barbara Soares:
Hi, Liz. Hi, everyone. Really excited to be here.
Liz Bryant:
Hi, Rosie.
Rosie Deigan:
Hi. Thank you for having me.
Liz Bryant:
Hello. It's lovely to have you all with us today. So, Mike, coming to you first. Can you tell us a bit about the different ways people may need support when they visit a court or tribunal?
Mike Williams:
Yeah, of course. Liz. Often when people think about accessibility, it's the kind of physical access into court. So, you know, how do you get round with ramps or wider doors, for example, for people with physical disabilities. The work that my teams get involved with is around the whole range of accessibility. So that might be somebody who has a visual impairment or maybe neurodiverse. So there's a huge range of things that we get involved with.
Liz Bryant:
Mike, you mentioned about making potentially physical adjustments to buildings, whether we're talking doorways or ramps, things like that.
Mike Williams:
What we do know is that it's not easy to make these changes. A lot of our court buildings are historic buildings and were actually constructed prior to the Equality Act of 2010 coming into force. So although some of our more modern buildings are easier to adapt and you don't have restrictions on those, some of the buildings - and I'm sure we'll be hearing a little bit about the Royal Courts of Justice shortly - are a lot more difficult to adapt.
Liz Bryant:
So one of the ways that we may first hear from someone to know that they need extra support would be a request for a reasonable adjustment. Can you tell us a bit about reasonable adjustments? What are they?
Mike Williams:
Yes, of course. So reasonable adjustments are actually measures that are put in place to provide something different so that a user or an individual can actually access and use our services in the same way as a person who doesn't have a disability. We have a legal duty under the Equality Act to provide those reasonable adjustments for our court and tribunal users who do have a disability.
We also have a wider duty, known as the public sector equality duty, which is to avoid treating people less favorably because of their disability or protected characteristics.
Liz Bryant:
Lisa, can I bring you in here to ask how can people make a request if they need a reasonable adjustment?
Lisa John:
So if an individual coming to court has a disability, they can get in contact with us to make us aware. They should be sent information when they receive the listing notice, which tells them who to contact if they do have to have some kind of adjustment put in place to accommodate their disability.
Equally, on our Find a Court and Tribunal pages for the Royal Courts of Justice, there is information about who you can contact in the court if you want to request a reasonable adjustment. There are email addresses and telephone numbers there, advising you who to contact.
Liz Bryant:
Mike, you mentioned protected characteristics. Can I just get you to describe what that means?
Mike William:
A protected characteristic is actually a characteristic which is protected by law, and it is against the law to discriminate against anyone because of it. So a couple of examples are age, gender reassignment, disability, religion or belief or sexual orientation. Now, that's not an exhaustive list, but that is the type of thing that is a protected characteristic.
Liz Bryant:
Thank you very much for that. So, Lisa, you were mentioning that you work at the Royal Courts of Justice, and obviously that's one of the older sites in our estate. So can you tell us what is accessibility like there?
Lisa John:
Yes, you're right. The Royal Courts of Justice is a very old building. The main building was built in the late 1800s. And I think it's fair to say accessibility wasn't necessarily a feature of the design at that point.
So the building - the physical building - presents a lot of different challenges for us. Some of the entrances have steps and are not accessible to anyone with mobility issues. We also have challenges around the lighting in different parts of the building, so for people with any visual impairments, that can be a challenge.
Although the building presents a lot of accessibility challenges, one of the things that we have found is that it's really important to let our users know up front that they can contact us if they have any accessibility challenges and we can do something to try and accommodate those when they're coming to visit the Royal Courts of Justice.
Liz Bryant:
I believe that you're currently trialling a new approach to that. Can you tell us a bit more about your contact scheme?
Lisa John:
So we have introduced disability contact officers in all divisions of the High Court and the Court of Appeal and we introduced that in 2021. We have done that to try and skill-up some key people who can help and support people who have accessibility challenges, who are coming to the court. They will act as a point of contact for that individual and they can speak to them about what their requirements are so that we can ensure that we are addressing their particular needs when they attend a hearing.
One of the things that we have found is that sometimes, people don't just have one disability or one accessibility requirement. And you talked earlier about reasonable adjustments, but it isn't always one reasonable adjustment that is required, it can be multiple. And so having that disability contact officer and having them speak to the individual, they can understand what those different adjustments are and involve the right people to ensure that those adjustments can be met.
In creating a sort of a network of disability contact officers across the Royal Courts of Justice, what we've also been able to do is to provide an opportunity for a disability contact officer to speak to their colleagues, if they get a request or something they've not come across before.
Liz Bryant:
Michelle, perhaps I could bring you in here. Can you tell us a bit about what kind of extra support you've put in place to help people?
Michelle Kelly:
What we found with the disability contact officers is that having that single point of contact means that actually they can provide support to people to support their individual needs. I think what we've really found is that you can't make assumptions with any disability and that speaking to the user is really important to understand from their perspective what they will require.
And that's what we're really trying to achieve with the disability contact officers. One of the key things that we found has been really helpful is that we can offer a pre-meet. So if someone is coming in to court and say that they want to come to the building prior to their hearing, to get a sense of the sort of challenges they may face in a day in a less stressful time, we found that that's one of the really useful things for people. So that is something that we can offer as well.
A disability contact officer can meet the person beforehand, show them the route and give them a sense of the experience that they'll have on the day to hopefully try and minimize any stress that they may feel. We don't want to add to people's stress on what's probably a very stressful day already.
I just want to mention this one area. So we recognised when we were doing the work on the accessibility programme that, despite being very passionate about the work we're doing and building that knowledge that we had of accessibility, we recognised that we weren’t experts. So we sought the help of the Business Disability Forum and got their consultancy to help us progress the accessibility programme forward at the Royal Courts of Justice.
We gained that input into the accessibility awareness sessions that we rolled out to all staff members to ensure that the way they were pitched was at the right level, the language we're using was correct and also that all of the legal and legislative requirements we were referring to was also correct as well. And we gained that feedback and expertise from them.
Liz Bryant:
So, Mike, if we can perhaps touch back on one or two things you mentioned before. We spoke about how accessibility isn't just about making sure that someone can physically attend a court or a tribunal hearing. Can you perhaps tell us a bit more about the human voice of justice?
What do we mean when we say human voice of justice? And how do we apply this to information about courts and tribunals?
Mike Williams:
The human voice of justice is, in real simple terms, about making how we communicate really easy for our users. We use a lot of jargon in our legal language, and it's about how we cut through that and actually tell our users what they need to know in the most straightforward way possible.
A lot of communication is often in written or letter form, and what we have done is worked with an external organisation when developing the human voice of justice to make sure that we drive a consistent approach and the language that we use is accessible. So, for example, a letter that would have gone out might have been two or three pages long, quite a long-winded letter that is full of lots of complex language. A new version of that letter that was sent out is actually sectioned and it says why the letter’s being sent, what it's about and why it applies. So it's a more simple, accessible letter that's easier to understand and also with the relevant contact details.
Posters and literature around our buildings are another one where we've we had a group set up that was known as ‘poster busters’ that looks at how we make our posters engaging, insightful and accessible as well, so that they tell people and users the information that they need as opposed to having a huge amount of words on them.
Liz Bryant:
And one of the things about the human voice of justice is about continually evolving and improving it. Is that right? So it's not just about talking to people, it's also about listening.
Mike Williams:
Absolutely. Unfortunately, we know we don’t always get it right. That’s why it’s important for our users to let us know when that happens so we can try to stop it happening again.
And actually, at HMCTS, we sit across several cross-government groups where we talk to not only other departments and colleagues across the civil service, but to users of our services as well, to gain that insight. A real key group that we're part of is the Ministry of Justice's Disability Action Group, where we can share our work and opportunities and learn from each other across MoJ.
And we're also members of the Business Disability Forum and they're the leading business membership organisation in disability inclusion. So we actually use that group as a critical friend and ask for their advice and input into things that we're working on where we could improve.
It's actually been a really useful group, particularly around our internal learning for reasonable adjustments, for all our staff across HMCTS. It's also identifying opportunities for where we can improve work that we're doing across the whole space of accessibility.
Liz Bryant:
And you've mentioned how we might incorporate that into letters and communications that we send out. Is this something that also applies for face-to-face communication, just talking when people come into the court. Is it something that applies at every level?
Mike Williams:
It does, yes. So human voice of justice is the whole way that we communicate, whether that is face to face, written, over the phone or with literature, so it applies across the broad range of ways that we may interact or communicate with our users.
Liz Bryant:
Can you tell me a bit about the Sunflower Lanyard scheme, what it signifies and how it works within our courts and tribunals?
Mike Williams:
What we haven't done, is reinvent this. This is actually an internationally recognised scheme and the organisation thought it was a brilliant opportunity for us to join it.
And anybody that comes into one of our buildings can ask for a lanyard. So it can be a user, a member of the judiciary, etc. Anybody that uses our buildings. And what it's there to do is signify, as you rightly say, a lot of disabilities are not visible. And it's also optional. Some people feel that they don't want to share that they have a hidden disability, but for those that do, who may need some assistance, they can put that lanyard on and it just makes our staff aware that that that person who is wearing that lanyard may need additional support and they can be approached and asked if they do need some additional support, or they can also approach us and it's easy for us to recognise that they have an additional need that is not visible.
Liz Bryant:
Michelle, if I can come back to you for a moment. Has the Sunflower Lanyard been popular at the Royal Courts of Justice?
Michelle Kelly:
Yes. So the Royal Courts of Justice was actually a pilot of the Sunflower Lanyard scheme before it went national in the summer, and it's been really successful in the Royal Courts of Justice. So each entrance has a pile of sunflower lanyards that the security team can give out to users and people are aware of the scheme as well through the posters that we've got around the buildings. We've often seen since the pilot, that when people are requesting reasonable adjustments, they are requesting that a Sunflower Lanyard can be available upon them arriving. So it's a great scheme.
Liz Bryant:
So we have seen a recent change to the law which has allowed British sign language interpreters into the jury deliberation room for the first time as a 13th person to be able to interpret for deaf people.
Mike, can you tell me how we've made sure that deaf jurors can serve in a trial for the first time?
Mike Williams:
It was back in July of 2022, in a trial at Croydon Crown Court, that we actually had our first deaf juror who was able to serve in a trial and was aided by British Sign Language interpreters. And there was a lot that we had to do to make this happen. We worked with the member of the jury leading up to the trial to consider many things like the layout of the court rooms and the deliberation room to plan where the juror and interpreters would be best placed to sit to allow all jurors to follow the trial.
We also worked with the British Deaf Association and sought their advice on how best we could support that juror to make their experience as accessible and as engaging as possible.
The result was resoundingly positive, and what we got was feedback from that juror as well, which is helping shape the guidance in that area.
Liz Bryant:
So we've spoken quite a lot so far about people actually coming to our buildings, visiting a court or a tribunal. But of course, many of our services are now online, like, for example, applying for help paying court fees. But not everyone has the skills or the confidence to use digital services or go online. So, Barbara, can I bring you in? What can you tell us about the National Digital Support Service?
Barbara Soares:
So the National Digital Support Service is a service to help users who don't have access to the Internet, to access online courts and tribunal forms. So it's not just limited to people who don't have access to the Internet. It's also for people who aren't confident at all.
We have partnered with an organisation called the We Are Group and they are the ones who help deliver this service to our users. This helps users to get the support that they need and ensures that everyone has the same access to our online forms.
So yeah, it's things like if you want to appeal a benefit decision, if you need to apply for a divorce online and things such as making a small claim and going to small claims court.
Liz Bryant:
So what kind of support does the service provide? Barbara and Rosie, tell me a bit more about what happens when you contact them.
Rosie Deigan:
We go through a triage process ourselves, and then we'll decide whether the end user needs the support. And it’s usually because people don't have the network to help them or they just don't have the confidence online or they don't have access online.
So we go through a triage process and then we work with a whole network across the UK in the community, such as community hubs, libraries, and then people will come over and get that digital support that way. We book in the appointments through the network. We've helped more than 6,300 people between June last year and December 2023.
Liz Bryant:
Barbara, if someone wants to access this kind of help, how do they get in touch with HMCTS to ask for it?
Barbara Soares:
There are many different ways, which is really, really good, because not everyone can go online. So it's a piece of cake. You can call our courts and tribunal centers and you can explain to them that you have this form, you need help and you don't have the confidence to do so, or you might not have the Internet.
But also when you do call directly to our courts and tribunal centres, there is an automated voice that asks you whether you want to speak to someone directly from We Are Group. And then that way you can be transferred straight to We Are Group and they will talk you through the process, try to better understand what it is that you need from their service by triaging you.
Liz Bryant:
It may be that someone begins the process of using one of our services. They might get started and it's at that point that they realise that actually, they may benefit from a bit of support. So what happens if someone's already begun their journey? Can they still get in touch for help?
Barbara Soares:
For some people, they might go online to attempt this application themselves and they realise that they might not trust the system themselves or they might not trust it’s definitely gone through. Not everyone understands how to use online forms like others do, and it's totally understandable. But we can then talk you through the process of understanding what part needs support with when it comes to the specific form.
The service is completely free to use within HMCTS and it's free to use if you talk to We Are Group directly too.
Liz Bryant:
I'd like to thank all of our guests for joining us today. Thank you so much for sharing your insights and your expertise.
If you'd like any more information on how we're helping people access justice, please visit the GOV.UK website and search for Vulnerability Action Plan. You can also read Mike's blogpost on how we're improving accessibility and a post on the Royal Courts of Justice by visiting our blog Inside HMCTS.blog.gov.UK and search for accessibility.
You can also listen to our other recent podcast on Neurodiversity and Remote hearings. Thank you so much for listening. We look forward to speaking to you again soon.
[English] - [Cymraeg]
Cyfiawnder Hygyrch: llysoedd a gwasanaethau digidol i bawb - trawsgrifiad podlediad
Liz Bryant:
Helo a chroeso i’r podlediad Inside HMCTS. Liz Bryant ydw i o’r tîm cyfathrebu yng Ngwasanaeth Llysoedd a Thribiwnlysoedd EF. Pan fydd angen i bobl ddod i un o’n llysoedd neu dribiwnlysoedd, neu ddefnyddio ein gwasanaethau ar-lein, mae’n bwysig bod pawb yn gallu cael mynediad at gyfiawnder. Efallai y bydd angen cefnogaeth neu gymorth ychwanegol ar rai pobl. Yn GLlTEF, rydym wedi ymrwymo i gael gwared ar rwystrau cyffredin y gall pobl eu hwynebu er mwyn sicrhau eu bod yn gallu cael mynediad at gyfiawnder ar lefel gyfartal.
Heddiw rydym yn sôn am sut yr ydym yn gwneud hynny. Boed hynny’n weithio i wneud ein hadeiladau llys yn hygyrch i bawb, gan ddarparu addasiadau rhesymol neu helpu pobl i ddefnyddio gwasanaethau ar-lein.
Rwy’n siarad â Mike Williams, Dirprwy Gyfarwyddwr Rhagoriaeth Gwasanaeth yn GLlTEF, y mae ei waith yn cynnwys gwella mynediad i lysoedd a thribiwnlysoedd. Helo, Mike.
Mike Williams:
Helo, Liz. Mae hi’n wych bod yma.
Liz Bryant:
Mae’r Cyfarwyddwr Cyflawni Lisa John a’r Pennaeth Newid, Michelle Kelly, yn ymuno â mi hefyd, sy’n gweithio yn y Llysoedd Barn Brenhinol yn Llundain i wella cymorth i ddefnyddwyr llysoedd ag anghenion hygyrchedd. Helo, Lisa a Michelle.
Lisa John:
Helo, Liz
Michelle Kelly:
Helo, Liz. Diolch am ein cael ni.
Liz Bryant:
A hefyd gyda ni heddiw mae Barbara Soares, un o’n cynghorwyr o’r Gwasanaeth Cymorth Digidol, a Rosie Deigan o We Are Group, sefydliad sy’n cefnogi pobl sydd heb y sgiliau digidol i lenwi ffurflenni ar-lein yn annibynnol. Maen nhw'n mynd i siarad am sut rydyn ni'n helpu pobl sydd angen cymorth i ddefnyddio ein gwasanaethau ar-lein.
Helo, Barbara.
Barbara Soares:
Helo, Liz. Helo, bawb. Dwi’n gyffrous iawn i fod yma.
Liz Bryant:
Helo, Rosie.
Rosie Deigan:
Helo. Diolch am fy nghael i.
Liz Bryant:
Helo. Mae’n hyfryd eich cael chi i gyd gyda ni heddiw. Felly, Mike, yn dod atoch chi yn gyntaf. A allwch chi ddweud ychydig wrthym am y gwahanol ffyrdd y gallai fod angen cymorth ar bobl pan fyddant yn ymweld â llys neu dribiwnlys?
Mike Williams:
Ie, wrth gwrs. Liz. Yn aml pan fydd pobl yn meddwl am hygyrchedd, maent yn meddwl am fynediad ffisegol i’r llys. Felly, wyddoch chi, sut mae symud o gwmpas gyda rampiau neu ddrysau lletach, er enghraifft, ar gyfer pobl ag anableddau corfforol. Mae’r gwaith y mae fy nhimau yn ymwneud ag ef yn ymwneud â’r ystod gyfan o hygyrchedd. Felly gallai hynny fod yn rhywun sydd â nam ar y golwg neu a allai fod yn niwrowahanol. Felly mae amrywiaeth enfawr o bethau rydyn ni’n ymwneud â nhw.
Liz Bryant:
Mike, fe wnaethoch chi sôn am wneud addasiadau ffisegol posibl i adeiladau, p’un a ydym yn sôn am ddrysau neu rampiau, pethau felly.
Mike Williams:
Yr hyn yr ydym yn ei wybod yw nad yw’n hawdd gwneud y newidiadau hyn. Mae llawer o’n hadeiladau llys yn adeiladau hanesyddol ac fe’u hadeiladwyd cyn i Ddeddf Cydraddoldeb 2010 ddod i rym. Felly er bod rhai o’n hadeiladau mwy modern yn haws i’w haddasu ac nad oes gennych chi gyfyngiadau ar y rheini, mae rhai o’r adeiladau – ac rwy’n siŵr y byddwn yn clywed ychydig bach am y Llysoedd Barn Brenhinol yn fuan – yn rhai llawer anoddach i'w addasu.
Liz Bryant:
Felly un o’r ffyrdd y gallwn glywed gan rywun i wybod bod angen cymorth ychwanegol arnynt yn y lle cyntaf fyddai cais am addasiad rhesymol. A allwch chi ddweud ychydig wrthym am addasiadau rhesymol? Beth ydyn nhw?
Mike Williams:
Ie, wrth gwrs. Felly mae addasiadau rhesymol mewn gwirionedd yn fesurau sy’n cael eu rhoi ar waith i ddarparu rhywbeth gwahanol fel y gall defnyddiwr neu unigolyn gael mynediad at ein gwasanaethau a’u defnyddio yn yr un ffordd â pherson nad oes ganddo anabledd. Mae gennym ddyletswydd gyfreithiol o dan y Ddeddf Cydraddoldeb i ddarparu’r addasiadau rhesymol hynny ar gyfer defnyddwyr ein llysoedd a thribiwnlysoedd sydd ag anabledd.
Mae gennym hefyd ddyletswydd ehangach, a elwir yn ddyletswydd cydraddoldeb y sector cyhoeddus, sef osgoi trin pobl yn llai ffafriol oherwydd eu hanabledd neu eu nodweddion gwarchodedig.
Liz Bryant:
Lisa, a gaf i ddod â chi i mewn yma i ofyn sut y gall pobl wneud cais os oes angen addasiad rhesymol arnynt?
Lisa John:
Felly os oes gan unigolyn sy’n dod i’r llys anabledd, gallan nhw gysylltu â ni i’n hysbysu. Dylid anfon gwybodaeth atynt pan fyddant yn derbyn yr hysbysiad rhestru, sy’n dweud wrthynt â phwy i gysylltu os oes rhaid iddynt gael rhyw fath o addasiad ar waith i ddarparu ar gyfer eu hanabledd.
Yn yr un modd, ar ein tudalennau Dod o Hyd i Lys a Thribiwnlys ar gyfer y Llysoedd Barn Brenhinol, mae gwybodaeth am bwy y gallwch gysylltu â nhw yn y llys os ydych am wneud cais am addasiad rhesymol. Mae cyfeiriadau e-bost a rhifau ffôn yno, sy’n eich cynghori â phwy i gysylltu.
Liz Bryan:
Mike, mi wnaethoch sôn am nodweddion gwarchodedig. A wnewch chi ddisgrifio beth mae hynny’n ei olygu?
Mike Williams:
Mae nodwedd warchodedig mewn gwirionedd yn nodwedd a warchodir gan y gyfraith, ac mae yn erbyn y gyfraith i wahaniaethu yn erbyn unrhyw un oherwydd hynny. Felly cwpl o enghreifftiau yw oedran, ailbennu rhywedd, anabledd, crefydd neu gred neu gyfeiriadedd rhywiol. Nawr, nid yw honno'n rhestr gyflawn, ond dyna'r math o beth sy'n nodwedd warchodedig.
Liz Bryant:
Diolch yn fawr iawn am hynny. Felly, Lisa, roeddech yn sôn eich bod yn gweithio yn y Llysoedd Barn Brenhinol, ac yn amlwg dyna un o’r safleoedd hŷn yn ein hystad. Felly a allwch chi ddweud wrthym sut mae’r sefyllfa hygyrchedd yno?
Lisa John:
Ydy, rydych chi’n iawn. Mae’r Llysoedd Barn Brenhinol yn adeilad hen iawn. Adeiladwyd y prif adeilad ar ddiwedd y 1800au. Ac rwy’n meddwl ei bod yn deg dweud nad oedd hygyrchedd o reidrwydd yn nodwedd o’r dyluniad bryd hynny.
Felly mae’r adeilad - yr adeilad ffisegol - yn cyflwyno llawer o heriau gwahanol i ni. Mae grisiau ar gyfer rhai o’r mynedfeydd ac nid ydynt yn hygyrch i unrhyw un sydd â phroblemau symudedd. Mae gennym hefyd heriau o amgylch y goleuadau mewn gwahanol rannau o’r adeilad, felly i bobl ag unrhyw nam ar eu golwg, gall hynny fod yn her.
Er bod yr adeilad yn cyflwyno llawer o heriau o ran hygyrchedd, un o’r pethau yr ydym wedi’i ddarganfod yw ei bod yn bwysig iawn rhoi gwybod i’n defnyddwyr ymlaen llaw y gallant gysylltu â ni os oes ganddynt unrhyw heriau o ran hygyrchedd a gallwn wneud rhywbeth i geisio darparu ar gyfer y rheini pan fyddant yn dod i ymweld â'r Llysoedd Barn Brenhinol.
Liz Bryant:
Credaf eich bod ar hyn o bryd yn treialu dull newydd o ymdrin â hynny. A allwch ddweud ychydig mwy wrthym ni am eich cynllun cyswllt?
Lisa John:
Felly rydym wedi cyflwyno swyddogion cyswllt anabledd ym mhob adran o’r Uchel Lys a’r Llys Apêl a gwnaethom gyflwyno hynny yn 2021. Rydym wedi gwneud hynny i geisio gwella sgiliau rhai pobl allweddol a all helpu a chefnogi pobl sy’n wynebu heriau o ran hygyrchedd, sy’n dod i’r llys. Byddant yn gweithredu fel pwynt cyswllt ar gyfer yr unigolyn hwnnw a gallant siarad ag ef am ei ofynion fel y gallwn sicrhau ein bod yn mynd i’r afael â’u hanghenion penodol pan fyddant yn mynychu gwrandawiad.
Un o’r pethau yr ydym wedi’i ganfod yw, yn aml, nad oes gan bobl un anabledd neu un gofyniad hygyrchedd yn unig. Mi wnaethoch chi sôn yn gynharach am addasiadau rhesymol, ond nid un addasiad rhesymol sydd ei angen bob amser, gall fod yn sawl un. Ac felly mae cael y swyddog cyswllt anabledd hwnnw a’i gael i siarad â’r unigolyn, yn golygu y gallan nhw ddeall beth yw’r addasiadau gwahanol hynny a chynnwys y bobl gywir i sicrhau y gellir bodloni’r addasiadau hynny.
Wrth greu math o rwydwaith o swyddogion cyswllt anabledd ar draws y Llysoedd Barn Brenhinol, yr hyn rydym hefyd wedi gallu ei wneud yw rhoi cyfle i swyddog cyswllt anabledd siarad â’i gydweithwyr, os cânt gais neu rywbeth nad ydynt wedi dod ar eu traws o'r blaen.
Liz Bryant:
Michelle, efallai y gallwn ddod â chi i mewn yma. A allwch chi ddweud ychydig wrthym am ba fath o gymorth ychwanegol rydych chi wedi’i roi ar waith i helpu pobl?
Michelle Kelly:
Yr hyn a welsom gyda’r swyddogion cyswllt anabledd yw bod cael yr un pwynt cyswllt hwnnw’n golygu y gallan nhw ddarparu cymorth i bobl i gefnogi eu hanghenion unigol. Rwy’n meddwl mai’r hyn rydyn ni wedi’i ddarganfod mewn gwirionedd yw na allwch chi wneud rhagdybiaethau gydag unrhyw anabledd a bod siarad â’r defnyddiwr yn wirioneddol bwysig i ddeall o’u safbwynt nhw beth fydd ei angen arnyn nhw.
A dyna beth rydyn ni wir yn ceisio ei gyflawni gyda’r swyddogion cyswllt anabledd. Un o’r pethau allweddol a ganfuom sydd wedi bod o gymorth mawr yw y gallwn gynnig rhag-gyfarfod. Felly os yw rhywun yn dod i’r llys ac yn dweud eu bod am ddod i’r adeilad cyn eu gwrandawiad, i gael ymdeimlad o’r math o heriau y gallent eu hwynebu mewn diwrnod ar adeg llai straenus, gwnaethom ganfod fod hynny’n un o’r pethau defnyddiol iawn i bobl. Felly mae hynny’n rhywbeth y gallwn ei gynnig hefyd.
Gall swyddog cyswllt anabledd gwrdd â’r person ymlaen llaw, dangos y llwybr iddo a rhoi ymdeimlad iddo o’r profiad y bydd yn ei gael ar y diwrnod i geisio lleihau unrhyw straen y gallai ei deimlo. Nid ydym am ychwanegu at straen pobl ar ddiwrnod sydd yn ôl pob tebyg yn llawn straen yn barod.
Rwyf am sôn am yr un maes hwn. Felly roeddem yn cydnabod pan oeddem yn gwneud y gwaith ar y rhaglen hygyrchedd, er ein bod yn angerddol iawn am y gwaith yr ydym yn ei wneud ac yn meithrin yr wybodaeth honno a oedd gennym am hygyrchedd, ein bod yn cydnabod nad oeddem yn arbenigwyr. Felly gwnaethom ofyn am gymorth y Fforwm Anabledd Busnes a chael eu hymgynghoriaeth i’n helpu i symud y rhaglen hygyrchedd yn ei blaen yn y Llysoedd Barn Brenhinol.
Cawsom y mewnbwn hwnnw i’r sesiynau ymwybyddiaeth hygyrchedd a wnaethom eu cyflwyno i bob aelod o staff er mwyn sicrhau bod y ffordd y cawson nhw eu gosod ar y lefel gywir, yr iaith yr ydym yn ei defnyddio yn gywir a hefyd bod yr holl ofynion cyfreithiol a deddfwriaethol sydd gennym y cyfeiriwyd ato yn gywir hefyd. A chawsom yr adborth a'r arbenigedd hwnnw ganddynt.
Liz Bryant:
Felly, Mike, os allwn ni efallai ailgyffwrdd ag un neu ddau o bethau y gwnaethoch chi sôn amdanynt o’r blaen. Fe wnaethom ni siarad am y ffaith nad yw hygyrchedd yn ymwneud â sicrhau bod rhywun yn gallu mynychu llys neu wrandawiad tribiwnlys yn gorfforol. A allwch chi efallai ddweud ychydig mwy wrthym ni am lais dynol cyfiawnder?
Beth a olygwn wrth ddweud llais dynol cyfiawnder? A sut mae cymhwyso hyn i wybodaeth am lysoedd a thribiwnlysoedd?
Mike Williams:
Mae llais dynol cyfiawnder, mewn termau syml iawn, yn ymwneud â gwneud y ffordd yr ydym ni’n cyfathrebu’n hawdd iawn i’w ddeall i’n defnyddwyr. Rydym yn defnyddio llawer o jargon yn ein hiaith gyfreithiol, ac mae’n ymwneud â sut yr ydym yn torri trwy hynny ac mewn gwirionedd yn dweud wrth ein defnyddwyr yr hyn y mae angen iddynt ei wybod yn y ffordd fwyaf syml bosibl.
Mae llawer o gyfathrebu yn aml ar ffurf ysgrifenedig neu lythyr, a’r hyn rydym wedi’i wneud yw gweithio gyda sefydliad allanol wrth ddatblygu llais dynol cyfiawnder i wneud yn siŵr ein bod yn llywio dull gweithredu cyson a bod yr iaith a ddefnyddiwn yn hygyrch. Felly, er enghraifft, gallai llythyr a fyddai wedi mynd allan fod wedi bod yn ddwy neu dair tudalen o hyd, llythyr eithaf hirwyntog sy’n llawn llawer o iaith gymhleth. Mae fersiwn newydd o’r llythyr hwnnw a gafodd ei anfon wedi’i rannu mewn adrannau ac mae’n dweud pam mae’r llythyr yn cael ei anfon, beth mae’n sôn amdano a pham ei fod yn berthnasol. Felly mae’n llythyr mwy syml, hygyrch sy’n haws ei ddeall a hefyd yn cynnwys y manylion cyswllt perthnasol.
Mae posteri a llenyddiaeth o amgylch ein hadeiladau yn rhywbeth arall lle rydym wedi sefydlu grŵp o’r enw ‘poster busters’ sy’n edrych ar sut rydym yn gwneud ein posteri yn ddeniadol, yn graff ac yn hygyrch hefyd, fel eu bod yn cyfleu wrth bobl a defnyddwyr yr wybodaeth sydd ei hangen arnynt yn hytrach na chael llawer iawn o eiriau arnynt.
Liz Bryant:
Ac un o’r pethau mae llais dynol cyfiawnder yn ymwneud ag ef yw ei esblygu a’i wella’n barhaus. Ydy hynny’n gywir? Felly nid yw'n ymwneud â siarad â phobl yn unig, mae'n ymwneud â gwrando hefyd.
Mike Williams:
Yn hollol. Yn anffodus, rydym yn gwybod nad ydym bob amser yn ei gael yn iawn. Dyna pam ei bod yn bwysig i’n defnyddwyr roi gwybod i ni pan fydd hynny’n digwydd fel y gallwn geisio ei atal rhag digwydd eto.
Ac mewn gwirionedd, yn GLlTEF, rydym yn eistedd ar draws sawl grŵp trawslywodraethol lle rydym yn siarad nid yn unig ag adrannau a chydweithwyr eraill ar draws y gwasanaeth sifil, ond â defnyddwyr ein gwasanaethau hefyd, i gael y mewnwelediad hwnnw. Grŵp allweddol gwirioneddol yr ydym yn rhan ohono yw Grŵp Gweithredu Anabledd y Weinyddiaeth Gyfiawnder, lle gallwn rannu ein gwaith a’n cyfleoedd a dysgu oddi wrth ein gilydd ar draws y Weinyddiaeth Gyfiawnder.
Ac rydym hefyd yn aelodau o’r Fforwm Anabledd Busnes a nhw yw’r sefydliad aelodaeth busnes mwyaf blaenllaw ym maes cynhwysiant anabledd. Felly rydym mewn gwirionedd yn defnyddio’r grŵp hwnnw fel ffrind beirniadol ac yn gofyn am eu cyngor a’u mewnbwn i bethau yr ydym yn gweithio arnynt lle gallem wella.
Mae wedi bod yn grŵp defnyddiol iawn mewn gwirionedd, yn enwedig o ran ein dysgu mewnol ar gyfer addasiadau rhesymol, i’n holl staff ar draws GLlTEF. Mae hefyd yn nodi cyfleoedd lle gallwn wella gwaith yr ydym yn ei wneud ar draws yr holl faes hygyrchedd.
Liz Bryant:
Ac rydych wedi sôn am sut y gallem ymgorffori hynny mewn llythyrau a chyfathrebiadau a anfonwn. A yw hyn yn rhywbeth sydd hefyd yn berthnasol ar gyfer cyfathrebu wyneb yn wyneb, dim ond siarad pan fydd pobl yn dod i mewn i’r llys. A yw’n rhywbeth sy’n berthnasol ar bob lefel?
Mike Williams:
Ydy, mae yn. Felly llais dynol cyfiawnder yw’r holl ffordd yr ydym yn cyfathrebu, boed hynny wyneb yn wyneb, yn ysgrifenedig, dros y ffôn neu gyda llenyddiaeth, felly mae’n berthnasol ar draws yr ystod eang o ffyrdd y gallwn ryngweithio neu gyfathrebu â’n defnyddwyr.
Liz Bryant:
A allwch chi ddweud ychydig wrthyf am y cynllun Cortyn Gwddf y Blodyn Haul, yr hyn y mae’n ei olygu a sut y mae’n gweithio yn ein llysoedd a’n tribiwnlysoedd?
Mike Williams:
Yr hyn nad ydym wedi’i wneud, yw ailddyfeisio hyn. Mae hwn mewn gwirionedd yn gynllun a sy’n cael ei gydnabod yn rhyngwladol ac roedd y sefydliad yn meddwl ei fod yn gyfle gwych i ni ymuno ag ef.
A gall unrhyw un sy’n dod i mewn i un o’n hadeiladau ofyn am gortyn gwddf. Felly gall fod yn ddefnyddiwr, yn aelod o'r farnwriaeth, ac ati. Unrhyw un sy'n defnyddio ein hadeiladau. A’r hyn y mae yno i’w wneud yw dynodi, fel y dywedwch yn gwbl briodol, nad yw llawer o anableddau yn weladwy. Ac mae hefyd yn ddewisol. Mae rhai pobl yn teimlo nad ydyn nhw am rannu bod ganddyn nhw anabledd cudd, ond i’r rhai sydd am wneud hynny, a all fod angen rhywfaint o gymorth, gallan nhw wisgo’r cortyn gwddf hwnnw ac mae’n gwneud ein staff yn ymwybodol efallai y bydd angen cymorth ychwanegol ar y person sy’n gwisgo’r cortyn gwddf hwnnw a gallan nhw fynd atyn nhw a gofyn iddyn nhw a oes angen cymorth ychwanegol arnyn nhw, neu gallan nhw hefyd ddod atom ni ac mae’n hawdd inni gydnabod bod ganddyn nhw angen ychwanegol nad yw’n weladwy.
Liz Bryant:
Michelle, os caf ddod yn ôl atoch chi am eiliad. A yw’r Cortyn Gwddf y Blodyn Haul wedi bod yn boblogaidd yn y Llysoedd Barn Brenhinol?
Michelle Kelly:
Ydy. Felly roedd y Llysoedd Barn Brenhinol mewn gwirionedd yn beilot o’r cynllun Cortyn Gwddf y Blodyn Haul cyn iddo fynd yn genedlaethol yn yr haf, ac mae wedi bod yn wirioneddol lwyddiannus yn y Llysoedd Barn Brenhinol. Felly mae gan bob mynedfa bentwr o Cortynnau Gwddf y Blodyn Haul y gall y tîm diogelwch eu rhoi i ddefnyddwyr ac mae pobl yn ymwybodol o’r cynllun hefyd trwy’r posteri sydd gennym o amgylch yr adeiladau. Rydym wedi gweld yn aml ers y cynllun peilot, pan fydd pobl yn gofyn am addasiadau rhesymol, eu bod yn gofyn am Gortyn Gwddf y Blodyn Haul i fod ar gael pan fyddan nhw’n cyrraedd. Felly mae'n gynllun gwych.
Liz Bryant:
Felly rydym wedi gweld newid diweddar i’r gyfraith sydd wedi caniatáu dehonglwyr iaith arwyddion Prydain i mewn i ystafell drafod y rheithgor am y tro cyntaf fel 13eg person er mwyn gallu cyfieithu ar gyfer pobl fyddar.
Mike, a allwch ddweud wrthyf i sut yr ydym wedi gwneud yn siŵr y gall rheithwyr byddar wasanaethu mewn treial am y tro cyntaf?
Mike Williams:
Yn ôl ym mis Gorffennaf 2022, mewn treial yn Llys y Goron Croydon, cawsom ein rheithiwr byddar cyntaf a oedd yn gallu gwasanaethu mewn treial ac a gafodd gymorth gan ddehonglwyr Iaith Arwyddion Prydain. Ac roedd yn rhaid i ni wneud dipyn o waith i wneud i hyn ddigwydd. Gwnaethom weithio gyda’r aelod o’r rheithgor cyn y treial i ystyried llawer o bethau fel cynllun yr ystafelloedd llys a’r ystafell drafod i gynllunio lle fyddai orau i’r rheithiwr a’r dehonglwyr eistedd er mwyn caniatáu i bob rheithiwr ddilyn y treial.
Buom hefyd yn gweithio gyda Chymdeithas Pobl Fyddar Prydain ac yn ceisio eu cyngor ar y ffordd orau i gefnogi’r rheithiwr hwnnw i wneud eu profiad mor hygyrch ac mor ddifyr â phosibl.
Roedd y canlyniad yn hynod gadarnhaol, a’r hyn a gawsom oedd adborth gan y rheithiwr hwnnw hefyd, sy’n helpu i lunio’r canllawiau yn y maes hwnnw.
Liz Bryant:
Felly rydym wedi siarad cryn dipyn hyd yn hyn am bobl yn dod i’n hadeiladau, yn ymweld â llys neu dribiwnlys. Ond wrth gwrs, mae llawer o’n gwasanaethau ar-lein erbyn hyn, fel, er enghraifft, gwneud cais am help i dalu ffioedd llys. Ond nid oes gan bawb y sgiliau na’r hyder i ddefnyddio gwasanaethau digidol neu fynd ar-lein. Felly, Barbara, a gaf i ddod â chi i mewn? Beth allwch chi ei ddweud wrthym am y Gwasanaeth Cymorth Digidol Cenedlaethol?
Barbara Soares:
Felly mae’r Gwasanaeth Cymorth Digidol Cenedlaethol yn wasanaeth i helpu defnyddwyr nad oes ganddynt fynediad i’r Rhyngrwyd, i gael mynediad at ffurflenni llysoedd a thribiwnlysoedd ar-lein. Felly nid yw’n gyfyngedig i bobl heb fynediad i’r Rhyngrwyd yn unig. Mae hefyd ar gyfer pobl nad ydynt yn hyderus o gwbl.
Rydym wedi partneru gyda sefydliad o’r enw We Are Group a nhw yw’r rhai sy’n darparu’r gwasanaeth hwn i’n defnyddwyr. Mae hyn yn helpu defnyddwyr i gael y cymorth sydd ei angen arnynt ac yn sicrhau bod gan bawb yr un mynediad at ein ffurflenni ar-lein.
Felly ydy, mae pethau fel os ydych chi eisiau apelio yn erbyn penderfyniad budd-dal, os oes angen i chi wneud cais am ysgariad ar-lein a phethau fel gwneud hawliad bach a mynd i'r llys hawliadau bychain.
Liz Bryant:
Felly pa fath o gefnogaeth mae’r gwasanaeth yn ei ddarparu? Barbara a Rosie, dywedwch ychydig mwy wrthyf i am yr hyn sy’n digwydd pan fyddwch yn cysylltu â nhw.
Rosie Deigan:
Rydym yn mynd trwy broses brysbennu ein hunain, ac yna byddwn yn penderfynu a oes angen y cymorth ar y defnyddiwr terfynol. Ac fel arfer mae hyn oherwydd nad oes gan bobl y rhwydwaith i’w helpu neu nid oes ganddynt yr hyder ar-lein neu nad oes ganddynt fynediad ar-lein.
Felly rydyn ni’n mynd trwy broses brysbennu ac yna rydyn ni’n gweithio gyda rhwydwaith cyfan ledled y DU yn y gymuned, fel hybiau cymunedol, llyfrgelloedd, ac yna bydd pobl yn dod draw i gael y gefnogaeth ddigidol honno felly. Rydym yn trefnu apwyntiadau drwy’r rhwydwaith. Rydyn ni wedi helpu mwy na 6,300 o bobl rhwng mis Mehefin y llynedd a mis Rhagfyr 2023.
Liz Bryant:
Barbara, os yw rhywun eisiau cael y math hwn o help, sut mae cysylltu â GLlTEF i ofyn amdano?
Barbara Soares:
Mae yna lawer o wahanol ffyrdd, sy’n wirioneddol dda, oherwydd ni all pawb fynd ar-lein. Felly mae’n hawdd iawn. Gallwch ffonio ein canolfannau llysoedd a tribiwnlysoedd a gallwch esbonio iddynt fod gennych y ffurflen hon, bod angen cymorth arnoch ac nad oes gennych yr hyder i wneud hynny, neu efallai nad oes gennych fynediad i’r Rhyngrwyd.
Ond hefyd pan fyddwch chi’n galw’n uniongyrchol i’n canolfannau llysoedd a tribiwnlysoedd, mae yna lais awtomataidd sy’n gofyn i chi a ydych chi eisiau siarad â rhywun yn uniongyrchol o We Are Group. Ac yna fel hyn gallwch chi gael eich trosglwyddo’n syth i We Are Group a byddan nhw’n siarad â chi drwy’r broses, yn ceisio deall yn well beth sydd ei angen arnoch chi o’u gwasanaeth trwy eich brysbennu.
Liz Bryant:
Mae’n bosibl bod rhywun yn dechrau’r broses o ddefnyddio un o’n gwasanaethau. Efallai y byddan nhw’n dechrau arni a dyna pryd maen nhw’n sylweddoli y gallan nhw elwa ar ychydig o gymorth mewn gwirionedd. Felly beth sy’n digwydd os yw rhywun eisoes wedi cychwyn ar eu taith? A allan nhw gysylltu am gymorth o hyd?
Barbara Soares:
I rai pobl, efallai y byddan nhw’n mynd ar-lein i roi cynnig ar y cais hwn eu hunain ac maen nhw’n sylweddoli efallai nad ydyn nhw’n ymddiried yn y system eu hunain neu efallai nad ydyn nhw’n ymddiried yn bendant ei fod wedi mynd drwodd. Nid yw pawb yn deall sut i ddefnyddio ffurflenni ar-lein fel y mae eraill yn ei wneud, ac mae’n gwbl ddealladwy. Ond gallwn wedyn siarad â chi drwy’r broses o ddeall pa ran sydd angen cymorth o ran y ffurflen benodol.
Mae’r gwasanaeth yn hollol rhad ac am ddim i’w ddefnyddio o fewn GLlTEF ac mae’n rhad ac am ddim i’w ddefnyddio os siaradwch yn uniongyrchol â We Are Group hefyd.
Liz Bryant:
Hoffwn ddiolch i’n holl westeion am ymuno â ni heddiw. Diolch yn fawr iawn am rannu eich mewnwelediadau a’ch arbenigedd.
Os hoffech gael rhagor o wybodaeth am sut rydym yn helpu pobl i gael mynediad at gyfiawnder, ewch i wefan GOV.UK a chwiliwch am y Cynllun Gweithredu Agored i Niwed. Gallwch hefyd ddarllen bostiad blog Mike ar sut rydym yn gwella hygyrchedd a phostiad ar y Llysoedd Barn Brenhinol drwy fynd i’n blog InsideHMCTS.blog.gov.UK a chwilio am hygyrchedd.
Gallwch hefyd wrando ar ein podlediad diweddar arall ar Niwroamrywiaeth a Gwrandawiadau o Bell. Diolch yn fawr am wrando. Edrychwn ymlaen at siarad â chi eto yn fuan.
