From Cell to Court: Inside Prisoner Escort and Custody Services - podcast transcript

Sian: Welcome to Inside HMCTS. I'm Sian and today we're taking you somewhere most people have never been, the custody suite at Manchester Magistrates Court. In this podcast, we'll take you through a day at one of the busiest courts in the country, meeting the teams responsible for escorting and caring for defendants. While HMCTS works closely with these services day-to-day. The prisoner escort and custody services contract is overseen by HM Prison and Probation Service and relies on close coordination between courts, police, prisons and transport providers. We'll be speaking to colleagues from the GO Amy team who transport and look after defendants from the moment they leave prison or police custody to the moment they appear in the dock.

Josie: I've just spent the day at Manchester Magistrates Court walking the corridors of the custody suite, watching the vans arrive and speaking to the people who make it all work. Behind this vital service is the prisoner escort and custody services contract, PECS, one of government's most complex operational arrangements. PECS, which is overseen by HM Prison and Probation Service, is responsible for the safe and secure movement and custody of prisoners across England and Wales, ensuring the right person is in the right place at the right time.

Geo Amey is one of two regional contractors managed by PECS. They cover the north of England and Wales while Serco cover the south. I spent the day with Geo Amey meeting the people responsible for transporting thousands of prisoners every week. What I found was a complex operation involving multiple agencies, dedicated staff and challenges that aren't always visible from the courtroom. Let's start in the custody suite itself.

It's just after 8:30 in the morning when I arrive, and the first vans are already pulling in. I met AJ, a court custody manager who's been working here for four years.

AJ: So today we started with 40, but we get extras as well, so I'm assuming today we'll have about 50.

Josie: Fifty people. That's fifty individuals who need to be processed, held securely, given access to their solicitors, and brought up to court at the right time – all managed in a facility with only 46 cells. AJ takes us through the custody area.

AJ: We’ve got 46 cells; they get filled most of the time. So, the prisoners press this buzzer here if they need something, and out here it'll make a noise up there, and we can see it's flashing red, so we'll know if they want something.

Cells is probably the hardest job, just physically, because you're constantly up and down, answering cell calls, answering the same questions. "Where's my solicitor? When am I going to court? What time is it? Can I have a brew?" Yeah, we're doing brews all the time.

Josie: I also met Terry, who's been a prisoner custody officer for 26 years and has seen the court system change dramatically. I asked Terri what a typical day looks like.

Terry: A typical day, well, everything's busy, everything's busy, it's manic. In my role as a computer operator, I have to input everything I can. Everything what happens. As much as I can, I'll get on there – so they can get a picture of what goes on.

Josie: Terry's seen a lot change in 26 years. 

Terry: There was no such thing as video link, anything like that – everybody had to appear in court. So you could get 30, 40 from Strangeways Prison in one day. And then you get all your police prisoners as well. So, I suppose it’s changed in that respect, we don’t get as many, but it is a very very busy court this. You never stop here. Once you start, you never stop. 

Josie: I asked Terry what surprised him when he first started in this role.

Terry: The violence surprised me. I didn't expect the prisoners to be so violent with the staff, but they was. You get to cope with that over the years. It doesn't surprise me anymore, but it's not as bad I don't think. I don't think the public understand the people you're dealing with on a day-to-day basis. 

Josie: That hidden complexity extends beyond the custody suite to the transport operation itself. I spoke to Andy, a GeoAmey Regional Manager, about the scale of what his teams handle.

Andy: Last month we moved 7,300 people, which is way above contractual levels. And our non-aligned moves sat at about 300 to 400 – which means we're still bringing people in from Birmingham, from Yorkshire, from the north-east. The vast majority of volume here is police station moves.

Josie: So what's changed?

Andy: A very significant part of the contract was geared around the reduction in moves because video link was going to be far greater used.

Josie: COVID also had a lasting impact.

Andy: Up until probably earlier this year, we were still dealing with backlog. And what they tended to do during COVID is they did single cases and left the multi-handed cases. So, we had a spell maybe two years ago – 2023, 24, the autumn of that year was just awful because all the multi-handers came back through.

We're not geared for that. We're geared for the odd spike, but this was almost a plateau of huge volume. 

Josie: But what about those times when a defendant does arrive late? Simon, Senior Contract Manager at PECS tells us where the data comes in.

Simon: So we get sent through management information reports – there's 30,000 lines in there and each individual person is a prisoner or defendant. It's the time the vehicle arrived at the outer gate of the prison or police station, the time they were handed over, the time they got on the vehicle, the time they left – all of that. So, when they say there was a delay, we can really easily and simply do root cause analysis.

Josie: That level of tracking means when a barrister or solicitor says a trial was delayed because the defendant wasn't delivered on time, the data can show exactly what happened. I spoke to one of the transport drivers about their experience at the sharp end.

Driver: We can be in there two or three hours waiting for four or five prisoners. If they're moving anybody to a CAT A unit, they shut the prison down and every gate stops. That's standard for every jail. If there's a freeze on, there's a freeze on – there's no other way around that.

My longest time was at Strangeways – they did seven roll counts and I was in for nearly four hours. Stuck on reception with six lads and I was waiting to leave.

Josie: But the driver is quick to point out this isn't the norm.

Driver: The only time we get delayed at police stations is if the van lock is quite small and there's another van already in.

Mondays is quite busy, so there might be 40 prisoners coming out of there, and it's, because they're all on different wings, different units, it has an effect to who's picking them up and that's all.

Josie: Back in the custody suite, the pace is relentless. AJ describes what a typical day involves.

AJ: You'll probably see everything today – you might see someone trying to fight us, you'll see it all. But it's just a daily occurrence for us.

A good day for me, there's a lot of paperwork. Making sure staff are doing what they should be doing. Dealing with stuff that happens on the daily, maybe someone is not for release or not confirmed that with higher management/HMCTS to make sure they can go. Prisoners that are kicking off, it could be a bed watch, or someone might need to go to hospital, so I'll ring an ambulance. I must have rung 200 ambulances since I've been here.

Josie: I asked AJ what made him want to work here, at one of the busiest custody suites in the country.

AJ: I just like being busy. I couldn't be sat around all day. And for me, to work at the biggest, one of the busiest courts in the country – I'm proud of that. I don't complain. The team here, everyone's got each other's back all the time. We all love each other – it's like a family.

Josie: That sense of teamwork extends beyond GeoAmey. Andy explains the constant coordination required between all the agencies involved.

Andy: We have daily engagement with HMCTS locally. We have daily engagement with Greater Manchester Police. We have weekly calls with more senior HMCTS to review the following week's listings. And then we have quarterly stakeholder meetings with the prisons, HMCTS, and police. 

Ultimately, everybody's aim is to make sure everybody's collected and dropped off on time, with as little fuss as possible.

Josie: Prisoner transportation is a complex picture – one that involves prisons, police, courts, and transport providers all working together. When something goes wrong, the data can tell us why. And often, the cause isn't as simple as it might appear from the courtroom.

What struck me most during my visit was the dedication of the people doing this work – managing challenging situations with limited resources, coordinating across multiple agencies, all to keep the courts running.

Sian: Huge thank you to Josie taking us behind the scenes in Manchester and the custody suite and gaming teams who took the time to explain what they do and why it matters. Thanks for listening to this episode of Inside HMCTS. If you'd like to hear more about how courts and tribunals work. Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.