https://insidehmcts.blog.gov.uk/knives-down-inside-the-community-fight-against-knife-crime-podcast-transcript/
Knives Down: Inside the community fight against knife crime (Part 1) - podcast transcript
[English] - [Cymraeg]
Aaron Wilson:
Hello, and welcome to the latest episode of Inside HMCTS with me, Aaron Wilson, from the communications team. In today's episode, we're going to be looking back at an anti-knife crime event that we held earlier in October and focusing on some of the work that went into creating that day and the purpose behind it.
There will be a second part to this episode, where we'll look back on how the event went and hear from some of our special guests who attended on the day. But prior to the event, I caught up with one of our excellent legal advisors, Ian, who filled me in on what the day was all about.
So, Ian, thanks so much for joining me and taking time out of your busy schedule to come and have a chat about this event.
I don't want to steal your thunder too much, so do you want to introduce yourself and your role here at HMCTS?
Ian Rawlins:
I'm Ian Rawlins. I'm a legal adviser at Central London area, which covers Westminster Magistrates' Court and City of London Magistrates' Court.
Aaron Wilson:
Could you tell me a bit more about what the purpose of the anti-knife crime event here at Westminster is?
Ian Rawlins:
Yeah. So, this is an idea I’ve had pre-COVID. It's unfortunate, there's no stranger to the fact that knife crime has increased dramatically throughout the years, and it's not going away. The stats are showing that things are increasing.
We can see each and every day and week with the footfall of defendants charged with knife offences that are coming that have increased. And for me, I've been involved in youths, one way or another, helping or assisting them be it through football or through schoolwork, in being a school governor, being a football coach. And that's been my involvement with youths. So outside of the court environment was where my concern was rising.
Having heard conversations in training with the kids in the background and having had an experience where, after a training session, a head teacher of a school turned up. And I could hear in the background that dad was there, and I heard the head teacher say, which one's Ian? And I turned and saw the dad pointing to me and the head teacher saying, okay, thanks.
So, I thought, okay what's this all about? So, after the training session, I was sort of beckoned over and their teacher said, sorry, to disturb you. I wouldn't normally do this, but such is my concern for this particular player in terms of his outside work. So, although technically I could have said nothing to do with me, I'm just I'm just the coach and manager of this team, I don't extend to his personal life. I was curious to what she had to say because the dad also looked very concerned as well.
And between the dad and the head teacher, they had said that this particular young man running with the wrong crowd, so much so that he was being used by some boys who were 2 or 3 grades younger than him to hold knives in his bedroom. And the dad had come across those knives. Turned out he was part of the gang. And for me, it was really concerning, because what it said to me was if it wasn't for football, he would be even more involved in this gang work. In my role with the courts, I think I thought, well, I can perhaps utilise my role with the court with people coming through the courts being charged with knives and with youngsters increasingly being caught with knives.
For us to try and do something and to try and educate these kids of the dangers of carrying knives, not only being involved in gangs, but also being holder of a knife and ultimately using a knife or being a victim of someone else using a knife on them. So that was my inspiration to try and do something in the court side of things to get these kids in to help educate them. So, with that in mind, in passing one day, I saw Stephen McAllister, the head of legal operations, and just ran it through him briefly.
I don't even think I need to finish the sentence straight away, Stephen said: “I'm in, let's do it.” And that's when things began to take its course. I was more than happy when we did manage to find our 2 schools who said straight away, we're in. So that helped me to give some hope for these kids. And moving forward, the idea is after Monday's event, then we'd like to plan more to invite other schools from other boroughs in because it's about the educational side.
As far as the day is concerned, I want it to be a type of roller coaster ride for them. It's going to be informative. It's going to be enjoyable, but I also want it to be scary for them because I want them to understand the realities and consequences of carrying a knife. Not just to them, but to others that they know or to their loved ones and people connected to them. So that's the idea of the day.
Aaron Wilson:
So it sounds like the day is going to be pretty full on. But can you tell me about who will be coming to the event?
Ian Rawlins:
People like, Steel Warriors are coming. Steel Warriors, their emphasis is on fitness. So, they like to go into prisons, and so they will go into a prison, and they will tell the prisoners it doesn't just end here because you're inside, there is still more that you can do for yourself, and they give them that hope.
They also, with the youngsters, teach them about the physical attributes of life. So, it's no secret that if you occupy your time, then you're busy doing something. When you're idle, that's when the youngsters can get sidetracked into the wrong things.
So Steel Warriors, want to emphasise the fact of being energetic, going out there, and really enjoying life and putting more in life through fitness and hope. So they are fortunate enough to be working with companies where we, the courts and police, confiscate knives through proceedings. They will melt down those knives, and they will create outdoor fitness equipment.
On the day itself, they'll be giving a talk. They'll be showing 1 or 2 short videos, but they'll also be doing some calisthenic exercises with the kids just to show them the different types of things that they can be doing and progressing of exercises.
You've then got the Street Doctors. The Street Doctors will be showing the 7 steps to save a life. What they've said is even if the kids remember 2 or 3 of those steps, it will go a long way in helping someone. The theme of the day is ‘caught to court’. So caught in the street to a court house.
So that's why the idea is to start the ball rolling, the Met Police should be talking about what happens when they come across a suspect in the street, the steps they take if someone's given a caution or charge, or if they then look to CPS (Crown Prosecution Service) to make a decision about a charge.
CPS will then be talking about what happens when they're approached by the police for a charging decision, the steps they take, and what they do when they bring cases to court.
We've then got the Deputy Chief Magistrate for England and Wales, Tan Ikram, and he will be giving a talk about when things come to court, what the court does, what the court's powers are, what the judges do.
And we've got, Fadi Daoud from Lawrence and Co solicitors. He will be talking about what happens when someone is charged and when they come to them for advice and what type of things they will say to a client who's been charged and what to prepare for.
We've got the Ben Kinsella Trust attending. For those of you that don't know about Ben Kinsella Trust, Ben Kinsella was unfortunately a victim of a stabbing and he lost his life. So his dad set up Ben Kinsella Trust to try and help the youngsters and guide them as well.
We then got the Sheriff of London coming. She'll be giving a little insight about what she does and any work that she does with the youth.
Aaron Wilson:
So this event is, you know, clearly designed to discourage, use of knives and tackle knife crime, but what can students expect on the day, and what will they be doing at the event itself?
Ian Rawlins:
In the afternoon, we're culminating with the mock multi-hander knife murder trial.
Every one of those students will have an active role to play in the mock trial and the mock trial is an actual real life trial that took place at the Crown Court. The kids don't know that yet, but it's a real life trial, obviously we're condensing that into an hour and a half.
Aaron Wilson:
I mean, it seems like it's going to be pretty busy with, with attendees on the day, but can you tell me about the special guests that we're also expecting on the day?
Ian Rawlins:
We're fortunate enough as well, as you guys know, that we're also going to be having Heidi Alexander, the government minister attending, which is an excellent thing. So, she'll be able to give a quick chat to everyone in the afternoon and I've got an ex-player of mine who is now a professional player for Charlton Athletic, Kane Ramsey. He's agreed to attend as soon as he's finished his training session, in the morning, and he'll be hopefully arriving around lunchtime.
So, he'll be able to have a chat with the kids if they want to talk about things and a little sort of inspiration for them that if they do have a goal and they can see it through, then you can achieve things.
So yes, so at the end of it, the idea is, we'll be awarding the kids a certificate of attendance. It's just a little something for us to say thank you and it's something for them to put in their portfolio. We're going to give the schools a certificate each as well to say thank you for attending our event.
And that and that is the day really.
Aaron Wilson:
So, Ian, thanks so much for joining me today. And we're really looking forward to seeing all the hard work that you've put in come to fruition at the event.
For our listeners, there'll obviously be a part 2 to this episode. We'll be hearing from some of the guests that Ian has mentioned as well, and then we'll catch up with Ian as well to see how the event went on the day.
So, stay tuned, and we'll be releasing that episode very soon.
[English] - [Cymraeg]
Dim Cyllyll: Y frwydr gymunedol yn erbyn troseddau gyda chyllyll (Rhan 1) - trawsgrifiad podlediad
Aaron Wilson:
Helo, a chroeso i bennod ddiweddaraf Inside HMCTS gyda fi, Aaron Wilson, o’r tîm cyfathrebiadau. Ym mhennod heddiw, byddwn yn edrych yn ôl ar ddigwyddiad yn erbyn troseddau gyda chyllyll bu i ni gynnal yn gynharach ym mis Hydref, ac yn canolbwyntio ar rywfaint o’r gwaith a wnaed i greu’r diwrnod hwnnw a’r pwrpas tu ôl iddo.
Bydd yna ail ran i’r bennod hon, lle byddwn yn edrych yn ôl ar sut wnaeth y digwyddiad fynd a chlywed gan rai o’n gwesteion arbennig a fynychodd ar y diwrnod. Ond cyn y digwyddiad, cefais sgwrs gydag un o’n cynghorwyr cyfreithiol gwych, Ian, a rannodd gwybodaeth gyda fi am y diwrnod.
Felly, Ian, diolch yn fawr am ymuno â fi a chymryd amser o dy amserlen brysur i ddod i gael sgwrs gyda fi am y digwyddiad hwn.
Nid wyf eisiau siarad ar dy ran gormod, felly fedri di gyflwyno dy hun a dy rôl yma yn GLlTEF?
Ian Rawlins:
Ian Rawlins ydw i. Rwy’n Gynghorydd Cyfreithiol yng Nghanol Llundain, sy’n cynnwys Llys Ynadon San Steffan a Llys Ynadon Dinas Llundain.
Aaron Wilson:
Fedri di ddweud mwy wrtha’i am bwrpas y digwyddiad yn erbyn troseddau gyda chyllyll yma yn San Steffan?
Ian Rawlins:
Gallaf. Felly, mae hwn yn syniad roedd gen i ers cyn COVID. Mae’n anffodus, ond nid yw’n syndod i neb bod nifer y troseddau gyda chyllyll wedi cynyddu yn sylweddol dros y blynyddoedd, ac ni fyddant yn diflannu. Mae’r ystadegau yn dangos bod y niferoedd yn cynyddu.
Gallwn weld bob diwrnod a bob wythnos bod nifer y diffynyddion sy’n cael euogfarn am droseddau gyda chyllyll yn cynyddu. Ac i mi, rwyf wedi bod yn gweithio gyda phobl ifanc, mewn un ffordd neu’r llall, yn eu helpu neu eu cynorthwyo gyda phêl-droed neu waith ysgol, trwy fod yn llywodraethwr ysgol a bod yn hyfforddwr pêl-droed. A dyna sut rydw i wedi ymwneud â phobl ifanc. Felly tu allan i amgylchedd y llys, dyna lle’r oedd fy mhryder yn cynyddu.
Roeddwn i wedi clywed sgyrsiau yn ystod y sesiynau hyfforddi gyda’r plant yn y cefndir ac wedi cael profiad lle, ar ôl sesiwn hyfforddi, roedd prifathro ysgol wedi dod draw. Roeddwn i’n gallu clywed yn y cefndir bod tad yno, a wnes i glywed y prifathro yn gofyn, pa un ydy Ian? A wnes i droi a gweld y tad yn pwyntio ataf i, a chlywed y prifathro yn dweud, oce, diolch.
Felly wnes i feddwl, beth ar y ddaear ydy hyn? Felly, ar ôl y sesiwn hyfforddi, cefais fy ngalw draw a meddai’r athro, sori am darfu. Byddwn i ddim yn gwneud hyn fel arfer, ond dwi’n bryderus am y chwaraewr penodol hwn o ran beth mae’n ei wneud y tu allan i’r sesiynau hyfforddi. Felly, byddai wedi bod yn ddigon hawdd i mi ddweud bod o ddim byd i wneud efo fi, dim ond hyfforddwr a rheolwr y tîm ydw i, ac nid wyf yn tynnu hyn i mewn i fy mywyd personol. Ond roeddwn i’n chwilfrydig am beth oedd ganddo i ddweud oherwydd roedd y tad yn edrych yn bryderus iawn hefyd.
A rhwng y tad a’r prifathro, roedd y ddau wedi dweud bod y bachgen ifanc hwn yn ymwneud â’r criw anghywir, a hynny i’r fath raddau fel bod rhai bechgyn oedd yn 2 neu 3 blwyddyn yn iau na fo yn gofyn iddo gadw cyllyll yn ei lofft. Ac roedd y tad wedi dod o hyd i’r cyllyll hynny. Daeth i’r amlwg ei fod o’n rhan o’r gang. Ac i mi, roedd hynny’n bryder mawr, oherwydd oni bai am y pêl-droed, efallai byddai o’n gwneud mwy gyda’r gang hwn. Yn fy rôl gyda’r llysoedd, wnes i feddwl, wel, efallai galla i ddefnyddio fy rôl yn y llys, gyda phobl ifanc yn dod trwy’r llysoedd ac yn cael eu cyhuddo o droseddau gyda chyllyll a mwy a mwy o bobl ifanc yn cael eu dal yn meddu ar gyllyll.
Roedd yn gyfle i ni drio rhywbeth gwahanol a cheisio addysgu’r plant hyn am beryglon cario cyllyll, ac nid yn unig bod yn rhan o gangiau, ond sut gall meddu ar gyllell ac yn y pen draw defnyddio’r gyllell neu fod yn ddioddefwr rhywun yn defnyddio cyllell arnyn nhw. Felly dyna oedd fy ysbrydoliaeth, i geisio gwneud rhywbeth yn y llys i gael y plant yma i mewn a’u haddysgu. Felly, gyda hynny mewn cof, wnes i ddod ar draws Stephen McAllister, pennaeth gweithrediadau cyfreithiol, a wnes i rannu’r syniad gyda fo yn fras.
Doedd ddim rhaid i mi orffen y frawddeg, meddai Stephen yn syth: “Iawn, wna i helpu, awn ni amdani.” A dyna pryd dechreuodd pethau symud yn eu blaenau. Roeddwn i’n hapus iawn pan wnaethon ni gael 2 ysgol i gymryd rhan yn syth. Felly mi wnaeth hynny roi rhywfaint o obaith i mi i’r plant hyn. Ac wrth symud ymlaen, y syniad yw, ar ôl digwyddiad dydd Llun, hoffwn gynllunio mwy o ddigwyddiadau a gwahodd ysgolion eraill o fwrdeistrefi eraill oherwydd yr ochr addysgol sy’n bwysig.
O ran y diwrnod, rwyf eisiau iddo fod fel ‘roller coaster’ iddynt. Mae’n mynd i fod yn addysgiadol. Mae’n mynd i fod yn hwyl, ond rwyf hefyd eisiau iddo godi ofn arnynt oherwydd rwyf eisiau iddynt ddeall realiti a chanlyniadau cario cyllell. Nid yn unig iddyn nhw, ond i eraill maen nhw’n eu nabod neu eu hanwyliaid a phobl sy’n gysylltiedig â nhw. Felly dyna’r syniad o’r diwrnod.
Aaron Wilson:
Mae’n swnio fel bydd y diwrnod yn un llawn. Ond alli di ddweud pwy fydd yn dod i’r digwyddiad?
Ian Rawlins:
Mae pobl fel y Steel Warriors yn dod. Mae’r Steel Warriors yn pwysleisio ffitrwydd. Maen nhw’n hoffi mynd i’r carchardai, felly byddant yn ymweld â charchar, a byddant yn dweud wrth y carcharorion nid yw’n gorffen yn fan hyn oherwydd eich bod yn y carchar, mae ‘na fwy y gallwch wneud i chi’ch hun, ac maen nhw’n rhoi gobaith iddynt.
Hefyd, gyda’r bobl ifanc, maen nhw’n dysgu nhw am agweddau corfforol bywyd. Felly, nid yw’n gyfrinach, os ydych chi’n treulio eich amser yn gwneud rhywbeth, yna rydych chi’n brysur yn gwneud y peth hynny. Pan rydych chi’n segur, dyna pryd mae pobl ifanc yn gallu cael eu denu i ddilyn y trywydd anghywir.
Felly, mae Steel Warriors eisiau pwysleisio bod yn egnïol, mynd allan a gwirioneddol yn mwynhau bywyd a chael mwy o ystyr a gobaith yn eu bywyd trwy ffitrwydd. Felly maen nhw’n ddigon ffodus i fod yn gweithio gyda chwmnïau lle rydym ni, y llysoedd a’r heddlu, yn atafaelu cyllyll trwy achosion. Byddant yn toddi’r cyllyll hynny ac yn creu offer ffitrwydd awyr agored.
Ar y diwrnod ei hun, byddant yn cynnal sgwrs. Byddant yn dangos 1 neu 2 fideo byr, ond byddant hefyd yn gwneud ymarferion calisthenig gyda’r plant, i ddangos gwahanol fathau o bethau y gallant wneud o ran gwneud ymarfer corff a datblygu hynny.
Wedyn mae gennych Street Doctors. Bydd y Street Doctors yn dangos y 7 cam i achub bywyd. Maen nhw’n dweud, os bydd y plant yn cofio dim ond 2 neu 3 o’r camau hyn, bydd yn mynd yn bell i helpu rhywun. Thema’r diwrnod yw ‘cael eich dal a mynd i’r llys (caught to court).’ Felly, cael eich dal ar y stryd a chael eich hebrwng i’r llys.
Dyna pam y syniad yw, i ddechrau’r broses, bydd Heddlu’r Met yn siarad am beth fydd yn digwydd pan fyddant yn dod ar draws rhywun a ddrwgdybir yn y stryd, y camau maen nhw’n eu cymryd pan fydd rhywun yn cael rhybudd neu gyhuddiad, neu os byddant yn troi at CPS (Gwasanaeth Erlyn y Goron) i wneud penderfyniad am gyhuddiad.
Yna bydd CPS yn siarad am beth fydd yn digwydd pan fydd yr heddlu yn cysylltu â nhw am benderfyniad ar gyhuddiad, y camau maen nhw’n eu cymryd, a beth maen nhw’n ei wneud pan fyddant yn dod ag achosion i’r llys.
Yna mae gennym Ddirprwy Brif Ynad Cymru a Lloegr, Tan Ikram, a fydd yn cynnal sgwrs am beth mae’r llys yn ei wneud pan fydd achosion yn dod i’r llys, beth yw pwerau’r llys a beth mae’r barnwyr yn ei wneud.
Ac mae gennym Fadi Daoud o gyfreithwyr Lawrence and Co. Bydd yn siarad am beth fydd yn digwydd pan fydd rhywun yn cael ei gyhuddo ac yn dod atynt am gyngor a pa fathau o bethau byddant yn ddweud wrth gleient sydd wedi cael ei gyhuddo a sut i baratoi.
Bydd Ymddiriedolaeth Ben Kinsella hefyd yn mynychu. I’r rhai hynny ohonoch nad ydych yn gyfarwydd ag Ymddiriedolaeth Ben Kinsella, cafodd Ben Kinsella ei ladd wrth fod yn ddioddefwr ymosodiad gyda chyllell. Felly mi wnaeth ei dad sefydlu Ymddiriedolaeth Ben Kinsella i helpu pobl ifanc a rhoi arweiniad iddynt hefyd.
Mae Siryf Llundain hefyd yn dod. Bydd hi’n rhoi mewnwelediad i’r hyn mae hi’n ei wneud ac unrhyw waith mae hi’n ei wneud gyda phobl ifanc.
Aaron Wilson:
Felly mae’r digwyddiad hwn wedi’i ddylunio i annog pobl ifanc i beidio â defnyddio cyllyll a mynd i’r afael a throseddau gyda chyllyll, ond beth ddylai myfyrwyr ddisgwyl ar y diwrnod a beth fyddant yn ei wneud yn y digwyddiad ei hun?
Ian Rawlins:
Yn y prynhawn, byddwn yn cloi’r digwydd gyda ffug dreial o lofruddiaeth gan nifer o bobl yn defnyddio cyllyll.
Bydd gan bob un o’r myfyrwyr hynny rhan weithredol i chwarae yn y ffug dreial ac mae’r ffug dreial yn seiliedig ar dreial go iawn a ddigwyddodd yn Llys y Goron. Nid yw’r plant yn gwybod hynny eto, ond mae’n dreial go iawn, ond yn amlwg rydym yn crynhoi y treial i mewn i gyfnod o awr a hanner.
Aaron Wilson:
Mae’n ymddangos y bydd yn ddiwrnod prysur, gyda’r holl bobl fydd yn mynychu ar y diwrnod, ond alli di ddweud mwy am y gwesteion arbennig fydd hefyd yn bresennol ar y diwrnod?
Ian Rawlins:
Rydym yn ddigon ffodus hefyd i gael Heidi Alexander, gweinidog o’r llywodraeth, yn mynychu, sy’n wych. Felly bydd hi’n cynnal sgwrs fer gyda phawb yn y prynhawn, ac mae gen i gyn-chwaraewr o’r tîm pêl-droed sydd bellach yn chwaraewr proffesiynol i Charlton Athletic, Kane Ramsey yn dod draw. Mae wedi cytuno i ddod draw unwaith y bydd wedi gorffen ei sesiwn hyfforddi yn y bore a gobeithio bydd o’n cyrraedd erbyn amser cinio.
Bydd o’n gallu cael sgwrs gyda’r plant os ydynt eisiau siarad am bethau, a bydd yn ysbrydoliaeth iddynt gan ddangos os oes ganddynt nod i’w gyrraedd maen nhw’n gallu ei wireddu ac yna gallwch gyflawni pethau.
Ac ar ddiwedd y diwrnod byddwn yn rhoi tystysgrif i’r plant am fynychu. Rhywbeth bach i ddweud diolch ac mae’n rhywbeth iddynt roi yn eu portffolio. Byddwn yn rhoi tystysgrifau i’r ysgolion hefyd i ddiolch iddynt am fynychu ein digwyddiad.
A dyna’r diwrnod i gyd yn y bôn.
Aaron Wilson:
Wel, Ian, diolch o galon am ymuno gyda fi heddiw. Ac rydym wir yn edrych ymlaen at weld yr holl waith caled yr wyt wedi’i wneud yn cael ei wireddu yn y digwyddiad.
Ac i bawb sy’n gwrando, bydd yna ail ran i’r bennod hon hefyd. Byddwn yn clywed gan rai o’r gwesteion mae Ian wedi sôn amdanynt hefyd, a byddwn yn dal i fyny gydag Ian i weld sut aeth y digwyddiad ar y diwrnod.
Felly, cofiwch wrando am y rhan nesaf, byddwn yn ei rhyddhau yn fuan iawn.
