https://insidehmcts.blog.gov.uk/neurodiversity-and-remote-hearings-podcast-transcript/
Neurodiversity and remote hearings - podcast transcript
[English] - [Cymraeg]
Adam Micklethwaite:
Autistic people experience and process the world differently and experience some of the greatest inequalities of any group in society.
Nicola Reynolds:
Currently we run a mixed economy of provision, but we are bringing in our own bespoke service and that's called the Video Hearings Service.
Adam Micklethwaite:
The most important thing of all is to engage with, and listen to, and work with autistic people as the service continues to develop.
Nicky Reynolds:
We want to really understand when it might be right and when it might not be right to hold a remote hearing.
Liz Bryant:
Welcome to this Inside HMCTS podcast. Recently we've been looking at how to make courts and tribunals more accessible for neurodivergent people.
Neurodiversity is a concept to express how different people may think, interpret and process information and interactions. Some of the people who need to use our services will have very different requirements and it's really important to us to make sure that neurodivergent people aren't disadvantaged or discriminated against when they need to access justice.
So today we're talking about remote hearings which take place online with some or all parties in different locations and the work we're doing to make them more accessible.
I'm joined by Nicky Reynolds, Deputy Director of the Future Hearings Programme, which is using data and innovation to improve access to justice and support our commitment to open justice. And I'm also joined by Adam Micklethwaite, Director of The Autism Alliance.
So, Nicky, could you start by explaining what neurodiversity is. So, what kinds of characteristics or access needs might neurodivergent people have if they're getting involved with the justice system.
Nicky Reynolds:
Hi Liz. Thank you for the question. So, neurodiversity, I see it as an umbrella term.
Some people have described it as a framework which is really quite a nice way of describing it, I think, which is a framework to understand that some people's brains work differently. So, it gets across that not everybody's brain works in the same way and there are people who experience the world differently to most other people.
So, they might have, you know, different social preferences, or they might have different ways of learning.
They might have different ways of communicating, or just generally different ways of perceiving their environments. I think it's really tricky to be talking about the specific characteristics of people with neurodiversity, because there's such a broad range of how neurodiversity may manifest. And we're on a learning journey with this.
Liz Bryant:
Can you explain a bit more what is a remote hearing?
How does it work and how could they support some people who work with us, who are neurodivergent?
Nicky Reynolds:
Remote hearings is a term that we use for any remote participation in a hearing. That can mean that all participants in that hearing are remote, or it could mean that just one or just a few of those participants in that hearing is remote. It's a judicial decision and that's really important to say. It's not for us in HMCTS to be saying whether a hearing can have remote participation or not.
That has got to be down to the judiciary, but we do provide that option for them.
Currently we run a mixed economy of provision, some of the services that we run are off the shelf. So we have limited scope in those services to change the interface of how that works and so if it works for people with autism or not, then it's almost down to look or how well it's been designed.
But we are bringing in our own bespoke service that we have full control over how that interface works and that's called the Video Hearing service.
And so that's the one that we’re testing with Adam and his team and with that service we've got a little bit of leeway to change the way that interface works to make it fit the greatest number of people.
Liz Bryant:
Now turning to you, Adam, can you tell me a little bit about The Autism Alliance and its aims?
Adam Micklethwaite
Yes, of course. So, the Autism Alliance is a national partnership of charities, not for profit organizations that support autistic people and their families. And those charities provide different types of support, so some are regulated providers of adult social care. Others provide education like special schools and specialist colleges, and others provide more general community support.
The alliance is a national body, and we support government and policy development. We campaign nationally on issues that affect autistic people and their families and we work together to improve practice.
Liz Bryant:
Could you share some of your thoughts on challenges that autistic people may face in accessing justice?
Adam Micklethwaite:
Autism is a type of neurodivergence, autistic people experience and process the world differently. They could have greater sensitivity to their environment, so lights and sounds and textures and tastes, smells. they might experience and process social and communication situations differently. So, they might communicate in different ways, and they might find it harder to read social situations. They might have intense interests and they might also have a lower tolerance of uncertainty, so a range of different things that autistic people might experience.
But the key point is that every autistic person is completely individual. So, everybody experiences these differences in their own way. Autistic people experience some of the greatest inequalities of any group in society. Those are pretty shocking statistics on life expectancy, on the risk of suicide and on the very, very high proportion almost 80% of autistic people that develop poor mental health.
And that is because society is not accessible or inclusive for autistic people, there are barriers everywhere, and coping with those barriers on a moment by moment basis on a day by day basis, builds up stress, which over time can escalate towards crisis.
So it's vitally important that we have public services and indeed a wider society that is accessible and inclusive to autistic people, so that we can help them to have happy, healthy, fulfilled lives, and we can address some of these terrible inequalities that there are.
So clearly justice is an important part of that and any public service that's going to support autistic people needs to consider their specific interests and needs and experiences. So it's excellent that HMCTS are looking at neurodivergence in its broader sense.
But within that, looking at different types of neurodivergence to make sure that service and support that you design can be as accessible and inclusive as possible. And I've been really pleased to start supporting the team, developing a remote hearing service, to start exploring some of the issues that they will need to consider as they develop a service that can be inclusive for autistic people.
Liz Bryant:
It sounds like being in a court or tribunal environment could be particularly challenging and stressful. So, I know you've seen our new Video Hearing Service. That's something we've specifically developed at HMCTS to try and facilitate court hearings remotely. So, can you tell us what did you think about it? What did you feel were the elements that might particularly help autistic people, or were there any particular bits you'd like to see improved?
Adam Micklethwaite:
I thought the focus on trying to make the experience as simple and clear as possible was very welcome. And that's particularly important for autistic people who may find it very difficult to cope with things that they're not expecting or that haven't been fully explained to them in advance. They might need more time to process certain parts of the user journey and to interact with those things, so the focus on making it simple and clear was very welcome.
I think on a first look at the prototype of the Video Hearings Service, there were certainly a range of things that we were able to suggest that HMCTS should look at.
In particular, you need to be quite careful with language, so you need to avoid language that is too nonliteral, because autistic people frequently will take a very literal interpretation of what is being said. There's a video which introduces the virtual hearing service and the talking on that video is and on the rapid side. So, probably needs to be slower and more considered and with more pauses and maybe with more time for people to stop and reflect and say, do you have any questions?
There were a couple of points where things happened that might, even if they've been prepared for, might still be off-putting for autistic people. So there was one point where a jingle happened as something started. I think it was the hearing itself suddenly kicking in and the video starting, so that jingle might be off putting. These are very simple things, but they might be off putting to autistic people.
The other point I would make is that preparation is essential. So, if you look at the idea of the whole user journey, not just the video hearing itself and that immediate period preceding and following the hearing, but actually looking back to the point of first contact with HMCTS and then various interactions that the person might have with a solicitor or with the HMCTS staff or with the judge.
Getting that process, that lead in absolutely spot on is perhaps the single most important thing of all within this user journey. Making sure that the process is prepared for that everything is very carefully explained. There might need to be a trial run for the autistic person to experience what this will be like before they then go into the real thing and just making sure that all the ground has been laid.
Liz Bryant:
So you've given us some details, a few things about the service that you've seen the Video Hearings Service as it stands and how we could improve that.
But can you tell us how you'd like to see it develop further? Either specifically the Video Hearing Service or also our approach to remote hearings in general, just so that we can meet more of the needs of autistic people.
Adam Micklethwaite:
Well, I think the most important thing of all is to engage with and listen to and work with autistic people as the service continues to develop and clearly the same is true of other people who are neurodivergent in other ways.
So the process of user centred design really needs to work well for this group. Do as much as possible to ensure that the voice, the insights, the feelings, the beliefs, the values of the people who you are designing for are coming through and being embedded then into the design of the service.
Liz Bryant:
Neurodivergent people can also have other needs and some service users might need other kinds of adjustments, for example, if they are disabled. So, are you able to tell us how might video hearings help someone who is autistic but who also has a range of intersecting requirements?
Adam Micklethwaite:
I think it comes back to this idea of understanding the individual and also the degree to which the system is able to flex in the way that it operates to accommodate and adjust for different needs. So, at that highest level, the principle is the same.
You need to talk to that person, listen to and understand that person. You need to make sure that happens. That's the point, it needs to happen in the process long before the points at which you get to needing to put those adjustments in place.
In the case of autistic people, they are more likely to have a range of co-occurring conditions. So, four in 10 autistic people will have a learning disability.
They might also have other conditions like ADHD, dyslexia, and dyspraxia. So, all of these things need to be understood. It's inevitably, a learning journey for everybody as well, so I'm not anticipating that you get this right first time when you are starting on this journey but having a process of continuous feedback whereby, HMCTS and court staff and the legal profession and the judiciary could all learn as this is happening and continue to improve the way in which this is done, I think is another key principle.
Nicky Reynolds:
I would agree with everything that Adam has just said there. One of the reasons why we've made links with Autism Alliance is that we want to really understand when it might be right and when it might not be right to hold a remote hearing. The ultimate decision about whether or not there is some remote participation in a hearing sits with the judiciary. But you know, it it's our job in HMCTS to make sure that the judges have the right information so that they can make a good decision.
Liz Bryant:
As you said, it's judicial decision as to whether any hearing can be held remotely.
But Nicky, are you able to tell us if a judge decides that a remote hearing is suitable?
What kind of adjustments are we able to make so that we can specifically support neurodivergent people?
Nicky Reynolds:
Well, that's a really tricky question. I think it's like, you know what? What do they say? If you’ve met one neurodivergent person, then you’ve met one neurodivergent person and actually their needs can vary wildly. So I'd say part of this is about really understanding what does that individual need rather than seeing people as a homogeneous group and saying well, therefore, if you fall into that category, we can apply these types of mitigations.
It's like, what do you personally need in order to have the best experience with this hearing. One of the reasons why we are starting to test the video hearing product with autistic people is so that we can so that we can make the user experience as positive as possible.
I'm not just talking about the litigants and defendants, I'm also talking about legal representatives, or judges themselves. You know, there's lots of people who have neurodiversity in one way or another and we wanna make it work for everybody. So it's not just about those people who need that little bit of extra support. It can also be professionals.
Liz Bryant:
So what kinds of sort of specific characteristics or experiences might be talking about here? What sort of considerations do we need to keep in mind when we're trying to support neurodivergent people?
Nicola Reynolds:
Bearing in mind we are at the start of a very long journey and we are learning as we go, which is why we have made a link with Adam and other people. So definitely not experts in this area, but some of the things that we are considering are things, like does that individual have anxiety in a new place or surrounding a new setting and can we use remote hearings to improve their experience because of that?
Because they can access the hearing from a more familiar setting, or conversely, does that individual have difficulty picking up social queues or body language, and therefore, you know, would it be better for that individual to be in a physical setting where they get to see people in their entirety rather than just head and shoulders?
Liz Bryant:
Can you perhaps tell us a bit more about how you've developed your approach and what kind of considerations have gone into the Video Hearings Service?
Nicky Reynolds:
The Video Hearings Service has been designed by the judiciary and it's out and it's being used in some jurisdictions and it will be rolled out later next year.
What we're doing now is testing that interface with people with neurodivergence, and then we can build in any kind of amendments that they think that we need by the time we roll it out on a national level, we've built in as many of those changes as possible.
It's not just about the technology, it's also about how we communicate with the users, how we ask them about what their needs might be other than technological needs and how we can get that information through to courts and through to the judges so that they can make the right decisions in that right moment.
Liz Bryant:
We've spoken a lot about differences, that different people have very different requirements, and it really sounds like it's very important to have a user-centered approach in this area. So, Adam, are you able to perhaps give us a few more examples of what that might look like, how we could engage with people better to find out more about what will be helpful?
Adam Micklethwaite:
Yes, of course. So first of all, it obviously needs some specific knowledge of neurodivergence and whatever type of neurodivergence or combination of different types of neurodivergence that individual is experiencing.
In my case, the partners that the Autism Alliance works with they support autistic people and their families in communities every day have specific knowledge of autism and experience of working with autistic people.
As I said, some of the ways in which autistic people are different could be harder to identify, sometimes not present all the time.
Liz Bryant:
We've spoken about working more with the community and with organisations like yours and really asking what people need. But how would you like to see things develop? How would you like to see the justice system become more accessible?
Adam Micklethwaite:
So, I think it's brilliant that HMCTS are already doing this and have started on this journey and my experience of HMCTS with previous work has always been that the team, the organisation is very open to inclusion, to accessibility and to really getting design to be as accessible as possible.
So it's great to see, so I would say there are a few things. One keep the mindset in that place, so don't lose that. Don't lose that fundamental commitment of the Reform program to be genuinely inclusive because we see other areas of society where the word is used, but the reality doesn't really bear that out and it's particularly hard when the world is beset by so many pressures.
But I think keeping that mindset is fundamental to be able to make progress on this and ultimately to deliver a better service.
We should remember that the principles that underpin better support for neurodivergent people in this case, but also for other types of other groups, that experience barriers are frankly the principles that will help make a better service for everybody.
Liz Bryant:
Nicky, is there anything else you wanted to highlight or comment on?
Nicky Reynolds:
The work that we're doing in the remote hearing service, has been the first few steps on what is probably going to be a quite long, even on-going journey as we HMCTS learn more about neurodivergence and as we in society learn more about it.
What I'm striving for, especially in the early years, is improvement and not perfection. So as long as we’re getting better, as long as we're learning, as long as we've got that open mindset, I think we're on the right track.
Liz Bryant:
Thank you, Nicky for taking the time to share your thoughts with us today on how we can make accessing justice better for neurodivergent people. And, thankyou also Adam for joining us and telling us some of the practical ways we can make it easier for autistic people to attend remote hearings.
If you’d like information on how we’re making sure our services work and are accessible for everyone, please search on GOV.UK for HMCTS equality and diversity.
Thank you for joining us today, we hope you found this podcast interesting and please do join us again for another episode.
[English] - [Cymraeg]
Niwroamrywiaeth a gwrandawiadau o bell
Adam Micklethwaite
Mae pobl awtistig yn gweld ac yn prosesu'r byd yn wahanol ac maent yn profi rhai o'r anghydraddoldebau mwyaf o unrhyw grŵp mewn cymdeithas.
Nicola Reynolds
Ar hyn o bryd mae gennym gymysgedd o ddarpariaeth, ond rydym yn cyflwyno ein gwasanaeth pwrpasol ein hunain, sef y Gwasanaeth Gwrandawiadau Fideo.
Adam Micklethwaite
Y peth pwysicaf oll yw ymgysylltu â phobl awtistig, gwrando arnyn nhw, a gweithio gyda nhw wrth i’r gwasanaeth barhau i ddatblygu.
Nicky Reynolds
Rydyn ni eisiau deall yn iawn pryd y gallai fod yn iawn cynnal gwrandawiad o bell a phryd na fyddai’n iawn gwneud hynny.
Liz Bryant
Croeso i'r podlediad Inside HMCTS hwn. Yn ddiweddar, rydym wedi bod yn edrych ar sut i wneud ein llysoedd a’n tribiwnlysoedd yn fwy hygyrch i bobl niwrowahanol. Cysyniad yw niwroamrywiaeth i fynegi sut y gall gwahanol bobl feddwl, dehongli a phrosesu gwybodaeth a rhyngweithiadau. Bydd gan rai o'r bobl sydd angen defnyddio ein gwasanaethau ofynion gwahanol iawn ac mae'n bwysig iawn ein bod ni’n gwneud yn siŵr nad yw pobl niwrowahanol dan anfantais neu'n cael eu gwahaniaethu yn eu herbyn pan fyddant angen cael mynediad at gyfiawnder.
Felly heddiw rydym yn sôn am wrandawiadau o bell sy'n cael eu cynnal ar-lein gyda rhai partïon neu bob parti mewn gwahanol leoliadau, yn ogystal â'r gwaith rydym yn ei wneud i'w gwneud yn fwy hygyrch. Yn ymuno â mi mae Nicky Reynolds, Dirprwy Gyfarwyddwr Rhaglen Gwrandawiadau y Dyfodol, sy’n defnyddio data ac arloesedd i wella mynediad at gyfiawnder a chefnogi ein hymrwymiad i gyfiawnder agored. Ac mae Adam Micklethwaite, Cyfarwyddwr Y Gynghrair Awtistiaeth, yn ymuno â mi hefyd.
Felly, Nicky, allwch chi ddechrau drwy egluro beth yw niwroamrywiaeth. Pa fath o nodweddion neu anghenion mynediad a allai fod gan bobl niwrowahanol os ydynt yn ymwneud â'r system gyfiawnder.
Nicky Reynolds
Helo Liz. Diolch am y cwestiwn. Felly o ran niwroamrywiaeth; rwy’n ei weld fel term ymbarél.
Mae rhai pobl wedi ei ddisgrifio fel fframwaith, sydd yn ffordd eithaf braf o'i ddisgrifio rwy'n meddwl, fframwaith i ddeall bod ymennydd rhai pobl yn gweithio'n wahanol. Felly, mae'n cyfleu nad yw ymennydd pawb yn gweithio yn yr un ffordd a bod yna bobl sy'n profi'r byd yn wahanol i'r rhan fwyaf o bobl eraill.
Felly, efallai bod ganddynt ddewisiadau cymdeithasol gwahanol, neu efallai bod ganddynt wahanol ffyrdd o ddysgu.
Efallai bod ganddynt wahanol ffyrdd o gyfathrebu, neu ffyrdd gwahanol yn gyffredinol o ganfod eu hamgylcheddau. Rwy'n meddwl ei bod yn anodd iawn siarad am nodweddion penodol pobl niwrowahanol, oherwydd mae ystod mor eang o wahanol ffyrdd y gall niwroamrywiaeth ddod i'r amlwg. Ac rydyn ni ar daith ddysgu ynghylch hyn.
Liz Bryant
Allwch chi egluro ychydig mwy am beth yw gwrandawiad o bell?
Sut mae'n gweithio a sut y gallai gefnogi rhai pobl sy'n gweithio gyda ni, sy'n niwrowahanol?
Nicky Reynolds
Mae gwrandawiadau o bell yn derm sy’n cael ei ddefnyddio gennym i ddisgrifio unrhyw gyfranogiad o bell mewn gwrandawiad. Gall hynny olygu bod pawb sy’n cymryd rhan yn y gwrandawiad hwnnw’n cymryd rhan o bell, neu gallai olygu mai dim ond un neu ychydig o’r cyfranogwyr hynny yn y gwrandawiad hwnnw sy’n cymryd rhan o bell. Mae'n benderfyniad barnwrol ac mae hynny'n bwysig iawn i'w ddweud. Nid lle i ni yn GLlTEF yw dweud p’un a all gwrandawiad fod yn wrandawiad o bell ai peidio.
Penderfyniad i'r farnwriaeth yw hynny, ond rydym yn darparu'r opsiwn hwnnw ar eu cyfer. Ar hyn o bryd mae gennym gymysgedd o ddarpariaethau, ac mae rhai o'r gwasanaethau rydym yn eu rhedeg yn rhai heb eu teilwra. Felly cyfyngedig yw ein gallu yn y gwasanaethau hynny i newid y rhyngwyneb o ran sut mae'n gweithio ac os yw'n gweithio i bobl ag awtistiaeth ai peidio, yna mae'n dibynnu bron ar edrychiad neu ba mor dda y mae wedi'i gynllunio.
Ond rydym yn datblygu ein gwasanaeth pwrpasol ein hunain y mae gennym reolaeth lawn dros sut mae'r rhyngwyneb hwnnw'n gweithio, sef y gwasanaeth Gwrandawiadau Fideo.
Ac felly dyna'r un rydyn ni'n ei brofi gydag Adam a'i dîm a gyda'r gwasanaeth hwnnw mae gennym ni ychydig o ryddid i newid y ffordd mae'r rhyngwyneb hwnnw'n gweithio fel ei fod yn addas ar gyfer y nifer fwyaf o bobl.
Liz Bryant
Gan droi atoch chi, Adam, allwch chi ddweud ychydig wrtha’i am y Gynghrair Awtistiaeth a'i nodau?
Adam Micklethwaite
Wrth gwrs. Felly, mae’r Gynghrair Awtistiaeth yn bartneriaeth genedlaethol o elusennau, sefydliadau nid-er-elw sy’n cefnogi pobl awtistig a’u teuluoedd. Ac mae'r elusennau hynny'n darparu gwahanol fathau o gymorth, felly mae rhai yn ddarparwyr rheoledig gofal cymdeithasol i oedolion. Mae eraill yn darparu addysg fel ysgolion arbennig a cholegau arbenigol, ac eraill yn darparu cymorth cymunedol mwy cyffredinol.
Mae’r gynghrair yn gorff cenedlaethol, ac rydym yn cefnogi datblygiad polisi a llywodraeth. Rydym yn ymgyrchu’n genedlaethol ar faterion sy’n effeithio ar bobl awtistig a’u teuluoedd ac rydym yn gweithio gyda’n gilydd i wella arferion.
Liz Bryant
Allwch chi rannu rhywfaint o’ch barn ar yr heriau y gall pobl awtistig eu hwynebu wrth geisio cael mynediad at gyfiawnder?
Adam Micklethwaite
Mae awtistiaeth yn fath o niwrowahaniaeth, mae pobl awtistig yn gweld ac yn prosesu'r byd yn wahanol. Gallent fod yn fwy sensitif i'w hamgylchedd, megis goleuadau a synau, gweadau a blasau ac aroglau. Gallent brofi a phrosesu sefyllfaoedd cymdeithasol a chyfathrebu yn wahanol. Felly, efallai y byddant yn cyfathrebu mewn gwahanol ffyrdd, ac efallai y byddant yn ei chael hi'n anoddach darllen sefyllfaoedd cymdeithasol. Efallai bod ganddynt ddiddordebau dwys ac efallai y bydd ganddynt lai o oddefgarwch o ansicrwydd, felly ystod o wahanol bethau y gallai pobl awtistig eu profi.
Ond y pwynt allweddol yw bod pob person awtistig yn gwbl unigryw. Felly, mae pawb yn profi'r gwahaniaethau hyn yn eu ffordd eu hunain. Mae pobl awtistig yn profi rhai o’r anghydraddoldebau mwyaf o unrhyw grŵp mewn cymdeithas. Mae’r ystadegau ar ddisgwyliad oes, ar y risg o hunanladdiad ac ar y gyfran uchel iawn, iawn, bron i 80% o bobl awtistig sy’n datblygu iechyd meddwl gwael yn frawychus iawn.
A hynny oherwydd nad yw cymdeithas yn hygyrch nac yn gynhwysol i bobl awtistig, mae rhwystrau ym mhobman, ac mae ymdopi â’r rhwystrau hynny o bryd i’w gilydd o ddydd i ddydd yn cynyddu straen, a all dros amser gyfrannu tuag at argyfwng. Felly mae'n hanfodol bwysig bod gennym wasanaethau cyhoeddus, ac yn wir cymdeithas ehangach sy'n hygyrch ac yn gynhwysol i bobl awtistig, fel y gallwn eu helpu i gael bywydau hapus, iach, bodlon, a gallwn fynd i'r afael â rhai o'r anghydraddoldebau ofnadwy hyn sy’n bodoli.
Felly, yn amlwg mae cyfiawnder yn rhan bwysig o hynny ac mae angen i unrhyw wasanaeth cyhoeddus sy'n mynd i gefnogi pobl awtistig ystyried eu diddordebau a'u hanghenion a'u profiadau penodol. Felly mae'n wych bod GLlTEF yn edrych ar niwrowahaniaeth yn ei ystyr ehangach. Ond o fewn hynny, yn edrych ar wahanol fathau o niwrowahaniaeth i wneud yn siŵr y gall y gwasanaeth a’r cymorth yr ydych yn ei ddylunio fod mor hygyrch a chynhwysol â phosibl. Ac rwyf wedi bod yn falch iawn o ddechrau cefnogi'r tîm, gan ddatblygu gwasanaeth gwrandawiadau o bell, i ddechrau archwilio rhai o'r materion y bydd angen iddynt eu hystyried wrth iddynt ddatblygu gwasanaeth a all fod yn gynhwysol i bobl awtistig.
Liz Bryant
Mae’n swnio fel y gallai bod mewn amgylchedd llys neu dribiwnlys fod yn arbennig o heriol a ddirdynnol. Felly, dwi’n gwybod eich bod wedi gweld ein Gwasanaeth Gwrandawiadau Fideo newydd. Mae hynny'n rhywbeth rydym wedi'i ddatblygu'n benodol yn GLlTEF i geisio hwyluso gwrandawiadau llys o bell. Felly, allwch chi ddweud wrthym beth oedd eich barn amdano? Beth oeddech chi’n teimlo oedd yr elfennau a allai fod o gymorth arbennig i bobl awtistig, neu a oedd unrhyw elfennau penodol yr hoffech weld yn cael eu gwella?
Adam Micklethwaite
Roeddwn i'n meddwl bod y ffocws ar geisio gwneud y profiad mor syml a chlir â phosibl i'w groesawu'n fawr. Ac mae hynny'n arbennig o bwysig i bobl awtistig sydd efallai yn ei chael hi'n anodd iawn ymdopi â phethau nad ydynt yn eu disgwyl neu sydd heb gael eu hesbonio'n llawn iddynt ymlaen llaw. Efallai y bydd angen mwy o amser arnynt i brosesu rhai rhannau o daith y defnyddiwr ac i ryngweithio â’r pethau hynny, felly roedd y ffocws ar ei wneud yn syml ac yn glir i’w groesawu’n fawr.
Rwy’n meddwl o edrych am y tro cyntaf ar brototeip y Gwasanaeth Gwrandawiadau Fideo, yn sicr, roedd amrywiaeth o bethau roeddem yn gallu awgrymu y dylai GLlTEF edrych arnynt. Yn benodol, mae angen ichi fod yn eithaf gofalus gydag iaith, felly mae angen ichi osgoi iaith sy’n rhy anllythrennol, oherwydd bydd pobl awtistig yn aml yn cymryd dehongliad llythrennol iawn o’r hyn sy’n cael ei ddweud. Mae yna fideo sy'n cyflwyno'r gwasanaeth gwrandawiadau rhithiol ac mae'r siarad ar y fideo hwnnw yn eithaf cyflym. Felly, mae'n debyg bod angen i’r siarad fod yn arafach ac yn fwy ystyriol a chyda mwy o seibiau ac efallai gyda mwy o amser i bobl stopio a myfyrio a dweud, a oes gennych chi unrhyw gwestiynau?
Roedd ambell bwynt lle digwyddodd pethau a allai fod yn annymunol i bobl awtistig, hyd yn oed os ydynt yn barod ar eu cyfer. Felly roedd un pwynt lle digwyddodd ‘jingl’ wrth i rywbeth ddechrau. Dwi'n meddwl mai'r gwrandawiad ei hun oedd yn cicio i mewn yn gyflym a'r fideo'n dechrau, felly efallai byddai’r ‘jingl’ yn annymunol. Mae'r rhain yn bethau syml iawn, ond gallant fod yn annymunol i bobl awtistig.
Y pwynt arall y byddwn yn ei wneud yw bod paratoi yn hanfodol. Felly, os edrychwch ar y syniad o daith gyfan y defnyddiwr, nid yn unig y gwrandawiad fideo ei hun a’r cyfnod uniongyrchol hwnnw cyn ac ar ôl y gwrandawiad, ond mewn gwirionedd yn edrych yn ôl at y pwynt cyswllt cyntaf â GLlTEF ac yna’r rhyngweithio amrywiol y gallai’r person ei wneud gyda chyfreithiwr neu gyda staff GLlTEF neu gyda'r barnwr.
Efallai mai cael y broses honno, y man cychwyn yn hollol gywir, yw’r peth pwysicaf oll o fewn taith y defnyddiwr hwn. Sicrhau bod y broses yn cael ei pharatoi iawn a bod popeth yn cael ei esbonio'n ofalus iawn. Efallai y bydd angen treialu er mwyn i'r person awtistig brofi sut beth fydd hyn cyn iddynt fynd i mewn i'r peth go iawn a gwneud yn siŵr bod yr holl broses yn barod.
Liz Bryant
Felly rydych chi wedi rhoi rhai manylion i ni, ychydig o bethau am y gwasanaeth rydych chi wedi’i weld yn y Gwasanaeth Gwrandawiadau Fideo fel y mae a sut y gallem ni wella hynny. Ond a allwch ddweud wrthym sut yr hoffech ei weld yn datblygu ymhellach? Naill ai y Gwasanaeth Gwrandawiadau Fideo yn benodol neu hefyd ein hymagwedd at wrandawiadau o bell yn gyffredinol, dim ond fel y gallwn ddiwallu mwy o anghenion pobl awtistig.
Adam Micklethwaite
Wel, rwy’n meddwl mai’r peth pwysicaf oll yw ymgysylltu â phobl awtistig a gwrando arnynt a gweithio gyda nhw wrth i’r gwasanaeth barhau i ddatblygu ac yn amlwg mae’r un peth yn wir am bobl eraill sy’n niwrowahanol mewn ffyrdd eraill.
Felly mae wir angen i'r broses o ddylunio sy'n canolbwyntio ar y defnyddiwr weithio'n dda ar gyfer y grŵp hwn. Gwnewch gymaint â phosibl i sicrhau bod llais, mewnwelediadau, teimladau, credoau, a gwerthoedd y bobl rydych yn dylunio ar eu cyfer yn cael eu cyfleu ac yn cael eu hymgorffori wedyn yng nghynllun y gwasanaeth.
Liz Bryant
Gall pobl niwrowahanol fod ag anghenion eraill hefyd ac efallai y bydd angen mathau eraill o addasiadau ar rai defnyddwyr gwasanaeth, er enghraifft, os ydynt yn anabl. Felly, a allwch chi ddweud wrthym sut y gallai gwrandawiadau fideo helpu rhywun sy'n awtistig ond sydd hefyd ag ystod o ofynion croestoriadol?
Adam Micklethwaite
Rwy'n meddwl ei fod yn dod yn ôl at y syniad hwn o ddeall yr unigolyn a hefyd i ba raddau y mae'r system yn gallu bod yn hyblyg yn y ffordd y mae'n gweithredu i ddarparu ar gyfer gwahanol anghenion ac addasu ar eu cyfer. Felly, ar y lefel uchaf honno, yr un yw'r egwyddor.
Mae angen i chi siarad â'r person hwnnw, gwrando ar y person hwnnw a'i ddeall. Mae angen i chi sicrhau bod hynny'n digwydd. Dyna'r pwynt, mae angen iddo ddigwydd yn y broses ymhell cyn bod angen rhoi'r addasiadau hynny ar waith.
Yn achos pobl awtistig, maent yn fwy tebygol o fod ag amrywiaeth o gyflyrau ar yr un pryd. Felly, bydd gan bedwar o bob deg person awtistig anabledd dysgu. Efallai y bydd ganddynt gyflyrau eraill hefyd fel ADHD, dyslecsia, a dyspracsia. Felly, mae angen deall yr holl bethau hyn. Mae’n daith ddysgu i bawb hefyd yn anochel, felly nid wyf yn rhagweld y byddwch yn cael pethau’n iawn y tro cyntaf pan fyddwch yn dechrau ar y siwrnai hon ond yn hytrach yn cael proses o adborth parhaus lle gallai GLlTEF a staff y llys a phroffesiwn y gyfraith a’r farnwriaeth i gyd ddysgu gan fod hyn yn digwydd a pharhau i wella’r ffordd y gwneir hyn, sy’n egwyddor allweddol arall yn fy marn i.
Nicky Reynolds
Rwy’n cytuno â phopeth y mae Adam newydd ei ddweud yno. Un o'r rhesymau pam rydym wedi gwneud cysylltiadau â'r Gynghrair Awtistiaeth yw am ein bod eisiau deall yn iawn pryd y gallai fod yn iawn cynnal gwrandawiad o bell, a phryd efallai nad yw'n iawn. Y farnwriaeth sy’n penderfynu yn y pen draw a oes rhywfaint o gyfranogiad o bell mewn gwrandawiad ai peidio. Ond ein gwaith ni yn GLlTEF yw gwneud yn siŵr bod gan y barnwyr yr wybodaeth gywir fel y gallant wneud penderfyniad da.
Liz Bryant
Fel y gwnaethoch ddweud, penderfyniad barnwrol yw p’un a ellir cynnal unrhyw wrandawiad o bell ai peidio. Ond Nicky, a allwch chi ddweud wrthym pe byddai barnwr yn penderfynu bod gwrandawiad o bell yn addas, pa fath o addasiadau y gallwn eu gwneud fel y gallwn gefnogi pobl niwrowahanol yn benodol?
Nicky Reynolds
Wel, mae hwnnw'n gwestiwn anodd iawn. Rwy'n meddwl ei fod fel… Beth maen nhw'n ei ddweud? Os ydych chi wedi cwrdd ag un person niwrowahanol, yna rydych chi wedi cwrdd ag un person niwrowahanol ac mewn gwirionedd gall eu hanghenion amrywio'n eang. Felly byddwn yn dweud bod rhan o hyn yn ymwneud â deall mewn gwirionedd beth sydd ei angen ar yr unigolyn hwnnw yn hytrach na gweld pobl fel grŵp homogenaidd a dweud wel, felly, os ydych yn perthyn i'r categori hwnnw, gallwn roi’r mathau hyn o fesurau lliniaru mewn lle.
Mae fel, beth sydd ei angen arnoch chi'n bersonol er mwyn ichi gael y profiad gorau gyda'r gwrandawiad hwn. Un o'r rhesymau pam rydym yn dechrau profi'r gwasanaeth gwrandawiadau fideo gyda phobl awtistig yw er mwyn i ni allu gwneud profiad y defnyddiwr mor gadarnhaol â phosibl.
Nid sôn am yr ymgyfreithwyr a’r diffynyddion yn unig ydw i, rwyf hefyd yn sôn am gynrychiolwyr cyfreithiol, neu farnwyr eu hunain. Wyddoch chi, mae yna lawer o bobl sydd yn niwrowahanol mewn rhyw ffordd neu'i gilydd ac rydyn ni am wneud iddo weithio i bawb. Felly nid yw'n ymwneud â'r bobl hynny sydd angen ychydig o gymorth ychwanegol yn unig. Gall hefyd fod yn weithwyr proffesiynol.
Liz Bryant
Felly pa fathau o nodweddion neu brofiadau penodol allwn fod yn sôn amdanynt yma? Pa fath o ystyriaethau y mae angen inni eu cadw mewn cof pan fyddwn yn ceisio cefnogi pobl niwrowahanol?
Nicola Reynolds
O gofio ein bod ni ar ddechrau taith hir iawn ac rydyn ni’n dysgu wrth fynd ymlaen, a dyna pam rydyn ni wedi gwneud cysylltiad ag Adam a phobl eraill. Felly yn bendant tyda ni ddim yn arbenigwyr yn y maes hwn, ond mae rhai o'r pethau rydym yn eu hystyried yn bethau fel, a oes gan yr unigolyn hwnnw bryder wrth fynd i rywle newydd neu o amgylch lleoliad newydd ac a allwn ddefnyddio gwrandawiadau o bell i wella eu profiad oherwydd hynny?
Oherwydd gallant gael mynediad i’r gwrandawiad o leoliad mwy cyfarwydd, neu i’r gwrthwyneb a yw’r unigolyn hwnnw’n cael anhawster i adnabod ciwiau cymdeithasol neu iaith y corff, ac felly, a fyddai’n well i’r unigolyn hwnnw fod mewn lleoliad ffisegol lle mae’n gallu gweld pobl yn eu cyfanrwydd yn hytrach na dim ond y pen a’r ysgwyddau?
Liz Bryant
Tybed a allwch chi ddweud ychydig mwy wrthym am sut rydych chi wedi datblygu eich dull gweithredu a pha fath o ystyriaethau sydd wedi'u rhoi i'r Gwasanaeth Gwrandawiadau Fideo?
Nicky Reynolds
Mae'r Gwasanaeth Gwrandawiadau Fideo wedi'i gynllunio gan y farnwriaeth ac mae wedi’i gyflwyno ac yn cael ei ddefnyddio mewn rhai awdurdodaethau a bydd yn cael ei gyflwyno ymhellach yn ddiweddarach y flwyddyn nesaf.
Yr hyn rydym yn ei wneud yn awr yw profi'r rhyngwyneb hwnnw â phobl niwrowahanol, ac yna gallwn gynnwys unrhyw fath o welliannau y maent yn meddwl sydd eu hangen fel ein bod wedi cynnwys cynifer o’r newidiadau hynny â phosibl erbyn inni ei gyflwyno ar lefel genedlaethol.
Nid yw’n ymwneud â’r dechnoleg yn unig, mae hefyd yn ymwneud â sut rydym yn cyfathrebu â’r defnyddwyr, sut rydym yn gofyn iddynt beth allai eu hanghenion fod ar wahân i anghenion technolegol a sut y gallwn drosglwyddo’r wybodaeth honno i’r llysoedd ac i’r barnwyr fel y gallant wneud y penderfyniadau cywir ar yr eiliad cywir.
Liz Bryant
Rydym wedi siarad llawer am wahaniaethau, bod gan wahanol bobl ofynion gwahanol iawn, ac mae'n swnio fel ei bod yn bwysig iawn cael dull sy'n canolbwyntio ar y defnyddiwr yn y maes hwn. Felly, Adam, a allwch efallai roi ychydig mwy o enghreifftiau inni o sut y gallai hynny edrych, sut y gallem ymgysylltu’n well â phobl i gael gwybod mwy am yr hyn a fydd o gymorth iddynt?
Adam Micklethwaite
Ie wrth gwrs. Felly i ddechrau, mae'n amlwg bod angen rhywfaint o wybodaeth benodol am niwrowahaniaeth a pha bynnag fath o niwrowahaniaeth neu gyfuniad o wahanol fathau o niwrowahaniaeth y mae'r unigolyn hwnnw'n ei brofi.
Yn fy achos i, mae gan y partneriaid y mae’r Gynghrair Awtistiaeth yn gweithio gyda nhw sy’n cefnogi pobl awtistig a’u teuluoedd mewn cymunedau bob dydd wybodaeth benodol am awtistiaeth a phrofiad o weithio gyda phobl awtistig.
Fel y dywedais, gallai fod yn anos nodi rhai o’r ffyrdd y mae pobl awtistig yn wahanol, ac weithiau nid ydynt yn amlwg drwy’r amser.
Liz Bryant
Rydyn ni wedi siarad am weithio mwy gyda'r gymuned a gyda sefydliadau fel eich un chi a gofyn beth sydd ei angen ar bobl. Ond sut hoffech chi weld pethau'n datblygu? Sut hoffech chi weld y system gyfiawnder yn dod yn fwy hygyrch?
Adam Micklethwaite
Felly, rwy’n meddwl ei bod yn wych bod GLlTEF eisoes yn gwneud hyn ac wedi dechrau ar y daith hon ac mae fy mhrofiad o weithio â GLlTEF yn y gorffennol bob amser wedi dangos bod y tîm, y sefydliad yn agored iawn i gynhwysiant, i hygyrchedd ac i’r dylunio fod mor hygyrch â phosibl.
Felly, mae'n wych gweld hynny a byddwn yn dweud bod ychydig o bethau i’w hystyried. Un yw cadw'r meddylfryd yn y lle hwnnw, felly peidiwch â cholli hynny. Peidiwch â cholli'r ymrwymiad sylfaenol hwnnw yn y rhaglen Ddiwygio i fod yn wirioneddol gynhwysol oherwydd rydym yn gweld meysydd eraill o'r gymdeithas lle mae'r gair yn cael ei ddefnyddio, ond nid yw'r realiti yn cadarnhau hynny mewn gwirionedd ac mae'n arbennig o anodd wrth ystyried holl bwysau’r byd.
Ond rwy’n meddwl bod cadw’r meddylfryd hwnnw’n rhywbeth sylfaenol er mwyn gallu gwneud cynnydd ar hyn ac yn y pen draw i ddarparu gwasanaeth gwell.
Dylem gofio mai’r egwyddorion sy’n sail i well cymorth i bobl niwrowahanol yn yr achos hwn, ond hefyd i fathau eraill o grwpiau eraill, sy’n profi rhwystrau, a dweud y gwir yw’r egwyddorion a fydd yn helpu i sicrhau gwell gwasanaeth i bawb.
Liz Bryant
Nicky, a oes unrhyw beth arall yr oeddech am dynnu sylw ato neu roi sylwadau arno?
Nicky Reynolds
Yr ychydig gamau cyntaf yw’r gwaith rydym yn ei wneud yn y gwasanaeth gwrandawiadau o bell o’r hyn sydd yn ôl pob tebyg yn mynd i fod yn daith eithaf hir, neu barhaus hyd yn oed, wrth i ni yn GLlTEF ddysgu mwy am niwrowahaniaeth ac wrth i ni yn y gymdeithas ddysgu mwy amdano.
Yr hyn rwy'n ymdrechu i sicrhau yw gwelliant ac nid perffeithrwydd, yn enwedig yn y blynyddoedd cynnar. Felly cyn belled â'n bod ni'n gwella, cyn belled â'n bod ni'n dysgu, cyn belled â bod gennym ni'r meddylfryd agored hwnnw, rydw i'n meddwl ein bod ni ar y trywydd iawn.
Liz Bryant
Diolch Nicky am gymryd yr amser i rannu eich barn â ni heddiw ar sut y gallwn wneud mynediad at gyfiawnder yn well i bobl niwrowahanol. A diolch hefyd i Adam am ymuno â ni a dweud wrthym am rai o'r ffyrdd ymarferol y gallwn ei gwneud yn haws i bobl awtistig fynychu gwrandawiadau o bell.
Os hoffech gael gwybodaeth am sut rydym yn sicrhau bod ein gwasanaethau’n gweithio a’u bod yn hygyrch i bawb, chwiliwch ar GOV.UK am gydraddoldeb ac amrywiaeth GLlTEF.
Diolch i chi am ymuno â ni heddiw. Rydym yn gobeithio bod y podlediad hwn wedi bod o fudd i chi a’ch bod am ymuno â ni eto am bennod arall.
