https://insidehmcts.blog.gov.uk/vision-to-verdicts-introducing-new-courts-and-tribunals-podcast-transcript/

Vision to verdicts: introducing new courts and tribunals - podcast transcript

[English] - [Cymraeg]

Sally: It’s really important that people trust the legal system and having a facility that people can physically get into, as well as one they think is fair and is useful is, you know, really fulfilling.

Aaron: That was Sally there, the architectural designer responsible for designing Blackpool's new courthouse, and we'll hear more from Sally later about this development.

Hi, I'm Aaron Wilson and in today's podcast, we are taking a behind the scenes look at three exciting new property projects.

Did you know that HMCTS is responsible for around 330 court and tribunal buildings across England and Wales and dozens of tribunal buildings in Scotland? They range from listed buildings steeped in history to new builds, providing modern, accessible hearing spaces.

But what goes into building and kitting out a new court or tribunal centre to make sure that it's welcoming and accessible for people who visit or work there?

Let's return to Sally now, who led the reimagining of what justice looks like in Blackpool. Her design for the town's new courthouse will replace an ageing building and become a cornerstone of Blackpool's ongoing regeneration.

So Sally, thank you so much for agreeing to come on to the podcast today. Can I just start by asking you a little bit about your job? What is it and what drew you to your particular career as well?

Sally: So my name is Sally. I originally came over from New Zealand where I also worked in architecture.

And the way I got into architecture originally was that my grandfather was a carpenter and then he was a draughtsman after that, after he injured his back, which quite often happens to carpenters. He inspired me to look into it as a career, really, and also growing up, I was really interested in art and math and science. It's kind of hard to find a balance for something that as a career path meets all of those criterias and the kind of balance of resolving that technical detail.

I think it's not just the detail itself, it's that feeling of bringing design and construction together.

Aaron: How did you feel when you found out you'd won the commission to design Blackpool's new courthouse?

Sally: So we worked really, really hard with Mott McDonald on the bid team and we had lots and lots of meetings and workshops with lots of contributors and it was probably one of the biggest bids I've worked on in a really long time.

And so we were just really thrilled when we found out that we were successful. There's a lot of competition in the architecture industry and you do a lot of work on bids and you you're not always successful. It's also quite rare that MoJ invests in a completely new building and we do lots and lots of retrofits and refurbishments. The last major purpose-built buildings we were involved in - and possibly the last ones that were that were implemented - was Manchester CJC, which was in 2007 and then Salisbury law courts, which was 2010.

Aaron: I think you've mentioned there two different arms of a project that you have. So you've got the building of the new courthouse in this case, or refurbishing what's there already. How much does that differ in the plan you have to put together and how you're going to plan your project?

Sally: Yeah, it's quite interesting how similar the processes start off. We meet with stakeholders to understand at the beginning of a project how they use the current building and then also what they need moving forward. So what's missing?

We then start looking at it almost like a puzzle - building blocks. So that you can work out exactly how the form of the building will work. The difference with a new build is you have a little bit more creativity, whereas you have the constraints of an existing building. A lot of the time, courts are based in civic centres where you can't expand. Often with older buildings, you can't build on top as that’s a more expensive solution, so you're working within the envelope of an existing building.

Aaron: I appreciate that there's probably still quite a long way to go on this project, but so far for you, what's been the most rewarding aspect of working on this project?

Sally: I think it's seeing how important the building is to the local community and that means the people who work in the building, the people who need to use the building, and courts around the country that have been there for a really long time and weren’t  always as accessible as they could be, but that focus has really changed in the last 20 or 30 years.

I think it's really great that we're bringing back a vital part of the legal system into Blackpool. It's not often as architects that we get to work on a project that has that level of social impact. Getting the design right and talking to the right people at the beginning, making sure that the building does what it needs to do, helps foster that connection between people and public institutions. It's really important that people trust the legal system and having a facility that people can physically get into and that they think is fair and is useful is, you know, really fulfilling.

Aaron:  I think you you've said a few bits there, but what do you hope when the building does open and people who have previously had to go to other sites to have their case heard, what do you want them to think and feel when they walk through the door for the first time?

Sally: I hope that they feel like they're walking into a building that is open and transparent and welcoming.

I hope they see it as a community place. I think people quite often don't think about courts as a community-use space until they desperately need it and and then that makes it quite often a frightening or intimidating process. I think it would be wonderful if when you turned up at Blackpool, or as somebody who's never experienced a court process before, that you feel safe and it's not difficult and there's level access for everybody so they can see what's going on, they can hear what's going on and a new build really gives us an opportunity to do that.

Aaron: If you could describe your involvement in Blackpool in one word, what would it be so far?

Sally: I think it's exciting. It's so rare to get an opportunity to work on a building of this scale for the MoJ, but I’m just looking forward so much to seeing it come to reality.

Aaron: Now let's join my colleague, Melissa, who's been on the ground in London meeting the people responsible for making the city's newest courthouse a reality.

Melissa: Thanks Aaron. I'm here at the heart of the capital, at the new City of London law courts. The construction workers you can hear behind me have been busy creating cells and building the new courtrooms at what will be a flagship courthouse. Right now, it's a bustling building site, but when it opens its doors to the public, it will hear civil and crime cases and it could be destined to tackle the most complicated cases, like fraud. I'm joined on site by a senior project manager, Sophie Nutbeem, whose role it is to oversee the development, providing a link between the construction firm and those staff who will actually use the building.

Hi, Sophie. Thanks for joining me. So the new law courts here on Fleet Street are already looking pretty impressive, but can you tell me what people can expect if they come to visit this court when it's open?

Sophie: Yes, of course. This building is going to be one of the most accessible buildings in the country. Now, that's the whole site, including all courtrooms, will be accessible. And that's for jurors, custodial staff and judiciary, visitors, witnesses, everybody; which is brilliant. And there will also be multiple lifts for all those different users. So even if one lift is broken, as we have in some of our buildings, that won't make a difference at this site. There is also changing places for public use on one of the floors, which is a real positive addition as we don't have that in hardly any of our sites.

Melissa: And what about the custody suite? What if we have any detainees who are wheelchair users, for example, what will their experience be like?

Sophie: Yes. So the custody suite is also accessible and there are specific cells that can accommodate wheelchairs as well as two lifts that will take any users up straight up into the courtrooms.

Melissa: That sounds really positive. It's not just accessible for people coming in using the building, but also for jurors, for judges, for legal professionals and for detainees as well. I think it's safe to say that's not always the case with a lot of our court buildings.

Sophie: No, it isn't. And we've really tried in this building to make it accessible for all users at all times.

Melissa: And can you tell me anything about the sustainability of the building. How environmentally friendly is it going to be?

Sophie: Yeah, so this this is a new build from the ground up and it will be achieving an outstanding BREEAM rating because of that. Now that is an assessment that starts before construction. So it starts as soon as the the the plans are designed for the building and points are given for design and sustainability measures, waste removal and even the type of paint that is used on the site. Things that people will more commonly be familiar with are that the building will have air source heat pumps. It will have solar panels on the roof and will harvest rainwater for toilet flushing.

Melissa: So how do you hope people will feel when they walk into this building for the first time, compared to other court buildings they've visited in the past?

Sophie: So this building when you first enter it, is going to be big, bright and airy with a modern feeling. And as you enter, there will be 3 search channels with bag scanners and that is so that we can efficiently get people into the building during busy periods. It will be easy to navigate around the site but there will be a reception desk on the ground floor should anyone need assistance.

And there are plenty of consultation rooms, ranging in sizes as well as public waiting space on each floor. There is also a prayer and contemplation room with ablution facilities and a separate well-being room as well, both for public use.

Melissa: That sounds really positive. I think that sometimes coming to court can feel quite daunting for people. You know, you could be coming to this building for any number of reasons – a civil dispute or to be a witness or to sit as part of a jury. But do you feel this building will be quite bright and spacious and easy to navigate?

Sophie: Yes, and there will be a mixture of facilities. So there will be small rooms if you need quiet space, there will be variety of public seating around the building. So if you need to be separate from other users of the building, there will be those sorts of facilities for you as well.

Melissa: And for you, obviously you've worked on a lot of projects in your role here in the HMCTS property department, but how has it felt for you personally to work on such a big project like this?

Sophie: So this one has been quite unusual in that we are working with our landlords, who are the City of London Corporation, and they're actually constructing the site for us. It's also an unusual project because the site will house crown, magistrates and civil work all under one roof, which is quite unusual. And this project has also been running since 2018, so it's been going a really, really long time.

And during that time, we've had changes in technology and our technology has moved on, our operating requirements have changed, especially post COVID. So that's all added an extra layer of complexity into the project and we've had to work extra hard with the City of London to ensure all of our requirements are met.

Melissa: So I've come to a different part of the building site now and I'm joined by the City of London Corporation Policy Chairman, Chris Haywood. Thanks for joining me, Chris. Now this development is a real show of partnership; the City of London Corporation is building the new court and the neighbouring headquarters and HMCTS is fitting the court building out.

But this is all part of a bigger development here at Salisbury Square. Can you tell me what it'll be like for people visiting and working in this part of London once it's finished?

Chris: Well it’s going to produce a regeneration of the area. So what we're going to find is that we've not only got a state-of-the-art courts building for fraud and economic crime, we'll have a fantastic new police headquarters and a commercial development as well.

So it's going to be a landmark building in an area of Fleet Street which frankly needed some investment in regeneration. So we're thrilled to be able to do it.

Melissa: And how has it felt for you to be involved in such a large and important development?

Chris: Well, I'm extremely proud. I'm proud of all of the people who've worked on this development. I'm proud of the corporation for funding it, I'm proud of the Capital Buildings Board for all the work they did in pulling it together. I mean, this is again another example of how we're investing in the future of the greatest city in the world and we'll go on doing that with all the other big buildings that we're also building and all the massive offices that have also been created in the square mile.

Melissa: I imagine you're looking forward to 2027 when this is all finally open for the public, and you can see people coming in and and using these buildings for the first time?

Chris: Can't wait. It'll be the end of my five-year tenure as policy chairman. What a way to go out - with a real bang.

Melissa: Definitely. What a great way to go out. Thanks very much for joining me.

Chris: Thank you so much.

Aaron: Thanks, Melissa. The City of London Law Courts will be used for magistrates, crown and civil cases, but my next guest is here to tell us about a project to create a new tribunal building. And that's our deputy director of planning, investment and sustainability, Mark. Thank you so much for joining me.

So we're going to talk a little bit about Newgate Street in London, which we bought in order to turn into a new tribunal centre in the city. Could you tell me a little bit about that project?

Mark: Yeah. So this is really exciting. So, in 22, we bought a building that became available, which is directly next door to the Old Bailey. And it was seen that we had issues with a number of our tribunal facilities within the centre of the city and they needed a huge level of investment because they are tired, they're not fit for purpose and tribunal function was struggling to be delivered from them. So we saw this as an opportunity and purchased 7 Newgate and that building we are converting into a 30-hearing room tribunal centre, which is going to be really exciting and world leading actually. There are 19 formal tribunal hearing rooms, 11 informal and 40 chambers for Tribunal judges. So it really is a tribunal court for the future and a really exciting project.

Aaron: And what sort of cases will they those rooms here?

Mark: The whole array of tribunal functions, so it's from employment tribunal, war pensions, armed forces, compensation chambers, Social Security and child support tribunals.

And what we're doing is exiting Victory House and Fox Court, which were both tired, for want of a better term, and required a huge investment so all of those functions from those buildings will come into Newgate and be able to be delivered far more effectively and efficiently.

Aaron: It sounds like a massive project and it must be more exciting for you to work on. So how has it been like working on this project?

Mark: First of all, a privilege because this is going to be a landmark project once it's complete. So it is fantastic. I think it's one of the largest tribunal centres in Europe once it’s completed, so it’s really exciting.

Aaron: And for people listening to this podcast, who might end up coming to the London Tribunal Centre, what can they expect when they walk through the doors when it opens?

Mark: The foyer and the reception area is quite impressive. It's a large open reception area, so I'm hoping that the experience of everyone will be a bit of a wow as to what can be achieved in the estate. We've got a number of buildings that are of this standard and the level of service that this can deliver, but this will be groundbreaking and probably the cherry on the cake of the estate once it's complete.

Aaron: I'm looking forward to seeing it. One question that we quite often get, particularly in my world on social media, is around accessibility. So how are we ensuring that this building is accessible to everyone that needs to come into the building?

Mark: So we've designed the building to be fully accessible. Because it's a major refurbishment, we're ensuring that we can undertake all of the adaptive work to ensure that the building is fully compliant with building regulations and so on, and we've also worked very closely with user groups to ensure that, whenever possible, we can implement measures for neurodiversity.

Aaron: Perfect. I just wanted to turn away from new buildings for a moment. And can we just talk about work to improve things like leaking roofs or ageing heating in some of the other sites? So obviously the Lord Chancellor recently said that £148 million has been set aside this financial year for repairs and maintenance to court and tribunal buildings and obviously that's a quite a large increase on the previous year. But can you give us some idea of what that money is being spent on?

Mark: Yes indeed. So what I put in place was a prioritisation process to ensure that the money is spent in the best way and we've got some really exciting projects from - they may not sound huge - but you've got  a roof replacement which will massively impact on the buildings that we're replacing the roof at and really improving service delivery and our interaction with operations and judiciary has never been so close.

Aaron: I just wanted to chat about some of the projects that I've heard of, because I think you mentioned the roof replacement there. Is that the one at Nottingham Crown Court?

Mark: Yes. There's one at Nottingham, we're just completing a huge one in Harrow, we've got a huge piece of work that we're undertaking in Birmingham as well. So it’s right across the country. We got some very interesting and exciting projects across the piece.

Aaron: Well, it sounds like there's never a dull day for you and your team. Mark, thank you so much for coming onto the podcast and joining me today.

And big thank you as well to all my guests who have joined me today to give us a behind the scenes look at some of the work taking place across the country to improve court and tribunal buildings for everyone.

If you'd like to find out more about these projects, why not read our recent blog by visiting inside hmcts.blog.gov.uk and searching for improving court buildings? That's all we have time for now. Until next time, take care and keep listening.

[English] - [Cymraeg]

Gweledigaeth i reithfarn: cyflwyno llysoedd a thribiwnlysoedd newydd
- trawsgrifiad podlediad

Sally: Mae’n bwysig iawn bod pobl yn ymddiried yn y system gyfreithiol a chael cyfleuster y gall pobl fynd i mewn iddo’n gorfforol, yn ogystal ag un maent yn meddwl sy’n deg ac yn ddefnyddiol, yn rhoi bodlonrwydd.

Aaron: Dyna Sally, y dylunydd pensaernïol oedd yn gyfrifol am ddylunio llys newydd Blackpool, a byddwn yn clywed gan Sally yn ddiweddarach am y datblygiad hwn.

Helo, Aaron Wilson ydw i ac yn y podlediad heddiw, rydym yn edrych y tu ôl i’r llenni ar dri phrosiect eiddo newydd cyffrous.

Oeddech chi’n gwybod bod GLlTEF yn gyfrifol am tua 330 adeilad llys a thribiwnlys ar draws Cymru a Lloegr a dwsinau o adeiladau tribiwnlys yn yr Alban?  Maent yn amrywio o adeiladau rhestredig llawn hanes i adeiladau newydd, sy’n darparu mannau gwrandawiad modern, hygyrch.

Ond beth sydd ei angen i adeiladau a threfnu llys neu ganolfan tribiwnlys newydd i sicrhau ei fod yn groesawgar ac yn hygyrch i bobl sy’n ymweld neu’n gweithio yno?

Gadewch i ni ddychwelyd at Sally nawr, y dylunydd pensaernïol â’r dasg o ailddelweddu sut mae cyfiawnder yn edrych yn Blackpool.   Bydd ei dyluniad ar gyfer llys newydd y dref yn disodli adeilad sy’n heneiddio ac yn dod yn gonglfaen adfywio parhaus Blackpool. 

Felly Sally, diolch am gytuno i ddod ar y podleidiad heddiw.  Gai ddechrau drwy ofyn ychydig am eich swydd?  Beth ydy eich gwaith a beth wnaeth eich denu at eich gyrfa benodol hefyd?

Sally Fy enw yw Sally. Wnes i ddod drosodd o Seland Newydd yn wreiddiol ble roeddwn hefyd yn gweithio mewn pensaernïaeth.

A’r ffordd wnes i ddod i’r byd pensaernïaeth yn wreiddiol oedd bod fy nhaid yn saer ac yna roedd yn ddyluniwr ar ôl hynny, ar ôl anafu ei gefn, sy’n digwydd yn eithaf aml i seiri. Gwnaeth fy ysbrydoli i edrych i mewn iddo fel gyrfa, mewn gwirionedd, a hefyd yn tyfu i fyny, roedd gennai ddiddordeb mawr mewn celf a mathemateg a gwyddoniaeth.  Mae’n eithaf anodd cael cydbwysedd ar gyfer rhywbeth fel llwybr gyrfa sy’n cwrdd â’r meini prawf hynny i gyd  a’r cydbwysedd o ddatrys y manylder technegol. 

Nid yn unig y manylder ei hun, y teimlad hwnnw o ddod â dylunio ac adeiladu at ei gilydd.

Aaron: Sut oeddech yn teimlo pan wnaethoch ennill y comisiwn i ddylunio llys newydd Blackpool?

Sally: Felly, wnaethon ni weithio’n galed iawn gyda Mott McDonald ar y tîm ceisiadau a chawsom lawer iawn o gyfarfodydd a gweithdai gyda llawer o gyfraniadau ac mae’n bosibl mai dyma un o’r ceisiadau mwyaf imi weithio arno ers amser maith.

Ac felly roeddem yn falch iawn pan wnaethom glywed ein bod yn llwyddiannus.   Mae yna lawer o gystadleuaeth yn y diwydiant pensaernïaeth ac rydych yn gwneud llawer o waith ar gynigion ac nid ydych bob amser yn llwyddiannus.   Mae hefyd yn eithaf prin i’r Weinyddiaeth Gyfiawnder fuddsoddi mewn adeilad cwbl newydd ac rydym yn gwneud llawer iawn o ôl-ffitio ac ailwampio. Yr adeiladau mawr a adeiladwyd yn bwrpasol i ni ymwneud â nhw ddiwethaf - ac o bosibl yr olaf i gael eu gweithredu - oedd Canolfan Cyfiawnder Sifil Manceinion, yn 2007 ac yna llysoedd barn Salisbury, yn 2010.

Aaron: Dw i’n meddwl eich bod wedi sôn bod yna ddwy ran gwahanol o brosiect sydd gennych.  Felly, mae gennych adeiladu’r llys newydd yn yr achos hwn, neu ailwampio beth sydd yna’n barod.   Sut mae hynny’n wahanol i’r cynllun sydd gennych i’w roi at ei gilydd a sut rydych yn mynd i gynllunio eich prosiect?

Sally: Ia, mae’n eithaf diddorol sut mae’r prosesau’n dechrau i ffwrdd yn debyg. Rydym yn cwrdd gyda rhanddeiliaid i ddeall ar ddechrau’r prosiect sut maent yn defnyddio’r adeilad presennol ac yna beth maent ei angen wrth symud ymlaen.   Felly beth sydd ar goll?

Yna, rydym yn dechrau edrych arno fel pos - blociau adeiladu. Fel eich bod yn gallu gweithio allan yn union sut fydd ffurf yr adeilad yn gweithio.  Y gwahaniaeth gydag adeilad newydd yw bod gennych ychydig mwy o greadigrwydd, ble mae gennych y cyfyngiadau mewn adeilad presennol. Llawer o’r amser, mae llysoedd wedi eu lleoli mewn canolfannau dinesig ble na allwch ehangu.  Yn aml gydag adeiladau hŷn, ni allwch adeiladu drostynt, gan fod hynny’n ddatrysiad mwy drud, felly rydych yn gweithio o fewn amlen adeilad presennol. 

Aaron: Rwy’n gwerthfawrogi mae’n siŵr bod yna dal gryn dipyn o ffordd i fynd ar y prosiect hwn, ond hyd yma i chi, beth oedd yr elfen oedd yn rhoi’r boddhad mwyaf ar y prosiect hwn?

Sally: Dw i’n meddwl mai gweld pa mor bwysig yw’r adeilad i’r gymuned leol ac mae hynny’n golygu’r bobl sy’n gweithio yn yr adeilad, y bobl sydd angen ei ddefnyddio ac nid yw llysoedd o amgylch y wlad sydd wedi bod yno am gyfnod hir iawn bob amser mor hygyrch ag y gallen nhw fod, ond mae’r ffocws hwnnw wedi newid yn yr 20 i 30 mlynedd diwethaf. 

Dw i’n meddwl ei fod yn wych ein bod yn dychwelyd rhan hanfodol o’r system gyfreithiol i Blackpool.   Nid yn aml fel penseiri yr ydym yn cael gweithio ar brosiect sydd gyda’r lefel honno o effaith cymdeithasol.   Cael y dyluniad yn iawn a siarad gyda’r bobl gywir ar y dechrau, gwneud yn siŵr bod yr adeilad yn gwneud beth mae angen ei wneud, yn helpu i feithrin y cysylltiad rhwng pobl a sefydliadau cyhoeddus.   Mae’n bwysig iawn bod pobl yn ymddiried yn y system gyfreithiol a chael cyfleuster y gall pobl fynd i mewn iddo’n gorfforol ac yn meddwl sy’n deg ac yn ddefnyddiol, yn rhoi llawer o foddhad.

Aaron:  Dw i’n meddwl eich bod wedi dweud ambell beth yn y fan yna, ond beth ydych yn obeithio sy’n digwydd pan mae’r adeilad yn agor a phobl sydd o’r blaen wedi gorfod mynd i safleoedd eraill i wrando eu hachos, beth ydych eisiau iddyn nhw feddwl a theimlo pan fyddant yn cerdded drwy’r drws am y tro cyntaf?

Sally: Dw i’n gobeithio eu bod yn teimlo fel eu bod yn cerdded i mewn i adeilad sy’n agored ac yn dryloyw ac yn groesawgar. 

Gobeithio eu bod yn ei weld fel lle cymunedol.  Dw i’n meddwl nad yw pobl yn aml yn meddwl am lysoedd fel man a ddefnyddir gan y gymuned nes byddant ei angen ac yna yn aml mae hynny’n ei wneud yn broses ofnus neu frawychus. Dw i’n meddwl y byddai’n fendigedig os pan fyddech yn cyrraedd Blackpool, neu fel rhywun sydd erioed wedi cael profiad o broses llys o’r blaen, eich bod yn teimlo’n ddiogel ac nad yw’n anodd a bod yna fynediad cyfartal i bawb fel y gallant weld beth sy’n digwydd a sut mae adeilad newydd yn rhoi cyfle inni wneud hynny.

Aaron: Os gallech ddisgrifio eich cyfraniad yn Blackpool mewn un gair, beth fyddai hwnnw hyd yma?

Sally: Rwy’n meddwl ei fod yn gyffrous. Mae’n brin iawn cael cyfle i weithio ar adeilad o’r raddfa hon i’r Weinyddiaeth Gyfiawnder, ond rwy’n edrych ymlaen yn fawr at ei weld yn cael ei wireddu.

Aaron: Nawr, gadewch inni ymuno â fy nghydweithiwr, Melissa, sydd wedi bod yn Llundain yn cwrdd gyda phobl sy’n gyfrifol am wneud llys mwyaf newydd y ddinas yn realiti.

Melissa: Diolch Aaron. Dw i yma yng nghanol y ddinas, yn llysoedd barn newydd Dinas Llundain.  Mae’r gweithwyr adeiladu rydych yn eu clywed y tu ôl imi wedi bod yn brysur yn creu celloedd ac yn adeiladu’r llysoedd newydd yn yr hyn a fydd y prif lys.  Ar hyn o bryd, mae’n safle adeiladu llawn bwrlwm, ond pan fydd yn agor ei ddrysau i’r cyhoedd, bydd yn clywed achosion sifil a throsedd a gall fod yn mynd i’r afael â’r achosion mwyaf cymhleth, fel twyll.   Mae Sophie Nutbeem, uwch reolwr prosiect yn ymuno â mi ar y safle, a’i rôl yw goruchwylio’r datblygiad, darparu cyswllt rhwng y cwmni adeiladu a’r staff fydd yn defnyddio’r adeilad. 

Helo Sophie. Diolch am ymuno â mi. Felly, mae’r llysoedd barn newydd yma ar Fleet Street eisoes yn edrych yn drawiadol iawn, ond allwch chi ddweud wrthyf beth gall pobl ei ddisgwyl os ydych yn dod i ymweld â’r llys hwn pan fydd yn agor?

Sophie: Gallaf, wrth gwrs. Mae’r adeilad hwn yn mynd i fod yn un o’r adeiladau mwyaf hygyrch yn y wlad.   Nawr, dyna’r safle cyfan, gan gynnwys pob llys, yn hygyrch.  Ac i’r rheithwyr, staff y ddalfa a barnwyr, ymwelwyr, tystion, pawb; sy’n wych. A bydd yna amryw o lifftiau i’r holl ddefnyddwyr gwahanol. Felly, os bydd un lifft wedi torri, fel sy’n digwydd yn rhai o’n hadeiladau, ni fydd hynny’n gwneud gwahaniaeth ar y safle hwn.  Mae yna hefyd fannau newid i’r cyhoedd eu defnyddio ar un o’r lloriau, sy’n ychwanegiad cadarnhaol iawn, gan mai prin iawn ydym yn cael hynny mewn unrhyw un o’n safleoedd.

Melissa: A beth am y ddalfa?  Beth os oes gennym garcharorion sy’n ddefnyddwyr cadair olwyn, er enghraifft, sut fydd eu profiad nhw?

Sophie: Ie. Felly, mae’r ddalfa hefyd yn hygyrch ac mae yna gelloedd penodol ar gyfer cadeiriau olwyn yn ogystal â dau lifft fydd yn mynd â defnyddwyr i fyny’n syth i’r llysoedd.

Melissa: Mae hynny’n swnio’n gadarnhaol iawn. Nid yn unig mae’n hygyrch i bobl sy’n dod i mewn sy’n defnyddio’r adeilad, ond hefyd i’r rheithwyr, gweithwyr cyfreithiol proffesiynol a charcharorion hefyd.  Rwy’n meddwl ei bod yn deg dweud nad yw hynny’n wir gyda llawer o’n llysoedd.

Sophie: Nac ydy. Ac rydym wir wedi ceisio ei wneud yn hygyrch i holl ddefnyddwyr bob amser yn yr adeilad hwn. 

Melissa: Ac allwch chi ddweud unrhyw beth wrthyf am gynaliadwyedd yr adeilad.  Pa mor ecogyfeillgar ydyw am fod?

Sophie: Ia, felly adeilad newydd yw hwn o’r gwaelod i fyny a bydd yn cyflawni graddfa BREEAM rhagorol oherwydd hynny.   Nawr, asesiad sy’n dechrau cyn adeiladu yw hynny.  Felly, mae’n dechrau gynted ag y bydd y cynlluniau wedi eu dylunio ar gyfer yr adeilad a rhoddir pwyntiau ar gyfer mesurau dylunio a chynaliadwyedd, dileu gwastraff a hyd yn oed y math o baent a ddefnyddir ar y safle.  Y pethau y bydd pobl yn fwy cyfarwydd â nhw yw y bydd gan yr adeilad bympiau gwres o’r aer. Bydd yna baneli solar ar y to a bydd yn cynaeafu dwr glaw ar gyfer fflysio’r toiled.

Melissa: Felly, sut ydych yn gobeithio fydd pobl yn teimlo pan fyddant yn cerdded i mewn i’r adeilad hwn am y tro cyntaf, o’i gymharu ag adeiladau llysoedd eraill maent wedi ymweld â nhw yn y gorffennol?

Sophie: Felly, mae’r adeilad hwn, pan fyddwch yn dod i mewn am y tro cyntaf, yn mynd i fod yn fawr, yn llachar a gyda theimlad modern iddo.  Ac wrth ichi ddod i mewn, bydd yna 3 sianel chwilio, gyda sganwyr bagiau ac mae hynny fel y gallwn gael bobl i mewn i’r adeilad yn effeithiol yn ystod cyfnodau prysur.   Bydd yn hawdd llywio o amgylch y safle ond bydd yna ddesg derbynfa ar y llawr gwaelod os bydd rhywun angen cymorth. 

Ac mae yna ddigon o ystafelloedd ymgynghori, yn amrywio mewn maint yn ogystal â mannau aros cyhoeddus ar bob llawr.  Mae yna hefyd ystafell weddïo a myfyrio gyda chyfleusterau ymolchi ac ystafell les ar wahân, i’r cyhoedd eu defnyddio. 

Melissa: Mae hynny’n swnio’n gadarnhaol iawn. Dw i’n meddwl weithiau bod dod i’r llys yn gallu teimlo’n eithaf brawychus i bobl.  De chi’n gwybod, gallech ddod i’r adeilad hwn am nifer o resymau - anghydfod sifil neu i fod yn dyst neu i eistedd fel rhan o reithgor. Ond ydych chi’n meddwl y bydd yr adeilad hwn yn eithaf llachar ac agored ac yn hawdd mynd o’i amgylch?

Sophie: Ydw, a bydd yna gymysgedd o gyfleusterau.   Felly, bydd yna ystafelloedd bach os ydych angen lle tawel, bydd yna amryw o seddi cyhoeddus o amgylch yr adeilad.   Felly, os ydych angen bod ar wahân i ddefnyddwyr eraill yr adeilad, bydd yna’r mathau hynny o gyfleusterau i chi hefyd. 

Melissa: Ac i chi, wrth gwrs rydych wedi gweithio ar lawer o brosiectau yn eich rôl yma yn yr adran eiddo GLlTEF, ond sut deimlad ydyw i chi’n bersonol i weithio ar brosiect mor fawr â hwn?

Sophie: Felly, mae hwn wedi bod yn eithaf anghyffredin gan ein bod yn gweithio gyda’n landlordiaid, sef Corfforaeth Dinas Llundain, ac maen nhw’n adeiladu’r safle i ni. Mae hefyd yn brosiect anghyffredin oherwydd y bydd y safle yn cynnwys gwaith llys y goron, ynadon a gwaith sifil i gyd o dan un to, sy’n eithaf anghyffredin.  Ac mae’r prosiect hwn hefyd wedi bod yn rhedeg ers 2018, felly mae wedi bod yn mynd ers amser hir iawn, iawn.

Ac yn ystod y cyfnod hwn, rydym wedi cael newidiadau mewn technoleg ac mae ein technoleg wedi symud ymlaen, mae ein gofynion gweithredol wedi newid, yn arbennig ar ôl COVID. Felly mae hynny i gyd wedi ychwanegu haen o gymhlethdod i’r prosiect ac rydym wedi gorfod gweithio’n galed iawn gyda Dinas Llundain i sicrhau bod ein holl ofynion yn cael eu bodloni. 

Melissa: Felly, dwi di dod i ran gwahanol o’r safle adeiladu nawr ac mae Chris Haywood, Cadeirydd Polisi Corfforaeth Dinas Llundain yn ymuno â mi. Diolch i chi am ymuno â mi, Chris. Nawr, mae’r datblygiad hwn yn dangos gwaith partneriaeth gwirioneddol; mae Corfforaeth Dinas Llundain yn adeiladu’r llys newydd ac mae’r pencadlys cyfagos a GLlTEF yn gwneud gwaith ffitio adeilad y llys.

Ond mae hyn i gyd yn rhan o ddatblygiad mwy yma yn Salisbury Square. Allwch chi ddweud wrthyf sut fydd y profiad i bobl sy’n ymweld ac yn gweithio yn y rhan yma o Lundain unwaith y cwblheir? 

Chris: Wel, mae’n mynd i adfywio’r ardal.  Felly, yr hyn fyddwn yn ei weld yw nid yn unig mae gennym adeilad llys o’r radd flaenaf ar gyfer twyll a throsedd economaidd, bydd gennym bencadlys heddlu newydd a datblygiad masnachol hefyd. 

Felly, mae’n mynd i fod yn adeilad tirnod mewn ardal o Fleet Street oedd yn syml angen rhywfaint o fuddsoddiad mewn adfywio. Felly, rydym yn falch o allu gwneud hynny.

Melissa: A sut deimlad oedd o i chi gyfrannu at ddatblygiad mor fawr a phwysig?

Chris: Wel, dw i’n hynod falch. Dw i’n falch o’r holl bobl sydd wedi gweithio ar y datblygiad hwn.  Dw i’n falch o’r gorfforaeth am ei ariannu, dw i’n falch o’r Bwrdd Adeiladu ag Arian Cyfalaf a’r gwaith a wnaed ganddynt i ddod â’r cyfan at ei gilydd.  Dyma enghraifft arall o sut rydym yn buddsoddi yn nyfodol dinas orau’r byd a byddwn yn mynd ymlaen i wneud hynny gyda’r holl adeiladau mawr eraill rydym hefyd yn eu hadeiladu a’r holl swyddfeydd anferth sydd hefyd wedi eu creu yn y filltir sgwâr.

Melissa: Rwy’n dychmygu eich bod yn edrych ymlaen at 2027 pan fydd y cyfan yn agored i’r cyhoedd, ac y gallwch weld pobl yn dod i mewn ac yn defnyddio’r adeiladau hyn am y tro cyntaf?

Chris: Methu aros. Bydd yn ddiwedd fy nghyfnod o bum mlynedd fel cadeirydd polisi. Am ffordd i orffen - gyda chyffro go iawn.

Melissa: Yn bendant. Am ffordd wych i orffen. Diolch yn fawr iawn am ymuno â mi.

Chris: Diolch yn fawr iawn.

Aaron: Diolch, Melissa. Bydd Llysoedd Barn Dinas Llundain yn cael eu defnyddio ar gyfer achosion ynadon,  goron a sifil, ond mae fy ngwestai nesaf yma i ddweud wrthym am brosiect i greu adeilad tribiwnlys newydd. A dyma ein dirprwy gyfarwyddwr cynllunio, buddsoddi a chynaliadwyedd, Mark.  Diolch yn fawr iawn am ymuno â mi.

Felly rydym yn mynd i siarad ychydig am Newgate Street yn Llundain, a brynwyd gennym i’w droi’n ganolfan tribiwnlys newydd yn y ddinas.   Allwch chi ddweud ychydig am y prosiect hwnnw?

Mark: Gallaf. Felly mae hyn yn gyffrous iawn. Felly yn 2022, gwnaethom brynu adeilad oedd ar gael sydd y drws nesaf i’r Old Bailey. A gwelwyd bod yna broblemau gyda nifer o’n cyfleusterau tribiwnlys o fewn canol y ddinas ac roedd angen llawer iawn o fuddsoddiad gan eu bod yn hen, ddim yn addas i’r diben ac roedd yn anodd darparu swyddogaeth tribiwnlys ynddynt.   Felly, roeddem yn gweld hwn fel cyfle a gwnaethom brynu 7 Newgate ac rydym yn trosi’r adeilad hwnnw i ganolfan dribiwnlys 30 ystafell gwrandawiad, fydd yn gyffrous iawn ac yn arwain y byd mewn gwirionedd.  Mae yna 19 ystafell gwrandawiad tribiwnlys ffurfiol, 11 anffurfiol a 40 siambr ar gyfer barnwr y Tribiwnlys. Felly, mae wir yn lys tribiwnlys ar gyfer y dyfodol ac yn brosiect cyffrous iawn. 

Aaron: A pha fath o achosion fydd yn yr ystafelloedd yma?

Mark: Yr holl gasgliad o swyddogaethau tribiwnlys, felly o dribiwnlys cyflogaeth, pensiynau rhyfel, lluoedd arfog, siambr Iawndal, Nawdd Cymdeithasol a thribiwnlysoedd cynnal plant.

Ac mae’r hyn rydym yn ei wneud yn gyffrous yn Victory House a Fox Court, y ddau adeilad yn hen a dweud y lleiaf, ac angen buddsoddiad mawr felly bydd yr holl swyddogaethau hynny o’r adeiladau hynny yn dod i Newgate ac yn gallu cael eu darparu’n llawer mwy effeithiol ac effeithlon.

Aaron: Mae’n ymddangos fel prosiect anferth ac mae’n rhaid ei fod yn gyffrous iawn ichi’n gweithio arno. Felly, sut brofiad oedd gweithio ar y prosiect hwn?

Mark: Yn gyntaf, anrhydedd gan y bydd hwn yn brosiect tirnod ar ôl ei gwblhau. Felly mae’n wych. Dw i’n meddwl mai dyma un o ganolfannau tribiwnlys mwyaf yn Ewrop ar ôl ei gwblhau, felly mae’n gyffrous iawn. 

Aaron: Ac i bobl sy’n gwrando ar y podleidiad hwn, a all fod yn dod i Ganolfan Tribiwnlys Llundain, beth allan nhw ei ddisgwyl pan fyddant yn cerdded trwy’r drws pan fydd yn agor?

Mark: Mae’r cyntedd a’r dderbynfa yn eithaf trawiadol.  Mae’n ardal derbynfa agored, felly dw i’n gobeithio y bydd y profiad i bawb yn ychydig o waw o ran yr hyn y gellir ei gyflawni yn yr ystâd.  Mae gennym nifer o adeiladau sydd o’r safon hwn a lefel y gwasanaeth y gall ei ddarparu, ond bydd hwn yn torri tir newydd ac mae’n debyg yn eisin ar y gacen i’r ystâd ar ôl ei gwblhau. 

Aaron: Edrychaf ymlaen at eich weld. Un cwestiwn yr ydym yn ei gael yn eithaf aml, yn arbennig yn fy myd ar y cyfryngau cymdeithasol, yw o amgylch hygyrchedd.  Felly, sut yden ni’n sicrhau bod yr adeilad hwn yn hygyrch i bawb sydd angen dod i mewn i’r adeilad?

Mark: Felly, rydym wedi dylunio’r adeilad i fod yn gwbl hygyrch. Gan ei fod wedi’i ailwampio’n llwyr, rydym yn sicrhau ein bod yn gallu gwneud yr holl waith addasu i sicrhau bod yr adeilad yn cydymffurfio’n llwyr gyda holl reoliadau adeiladu ac ati, ac rydym hefyd wedi gweithio’n agos iawn gyda grwpiau defnyddwyr i sicrhau, ble bo hynny’n bosibl, y gallwn weithredu mesurau ar gyfer niwroamrywiaeth.

Aaron: Perffaith. Dw i eisiau symud oddi wrth adeiladau newydd am funud. Allwn ni siarad am waith i wella pethau fel toeau yn gollwng neu systemau gwresogi hen mewn rhai o’r safleoedd eraill? Felly, yn amlwg dywedodd yr Arglwydd Ganghellor yn ddiweddar bod £148 miliwn wedi’i roi o’r neilltu ar gyfer y flwyddyn ariannol hon ar gyfer cynnal a chadw adeiladau llysoedd a thribiwnlysoedd ac yn amlwg mae hynny’n gynnydd eithaf mawr ers y flwyddyn flaenorol.   Ond allwch chi roi syniad i ni o beth mae’r arian hwnnw’n cael ei wario arno?

Mark: Gallaf siŵr. Felly, beth wnes i oedd llunio proses flaenoriaethu i sicrhau bod yr arian yn cael ei wario yn y ffordd orau ac mae gennym brosiectau cyffrous iawn - efallai nad ydynt yn ymddangos yn anferth - ond mae gennych do newydd fydd yn cael effaith mawr ar yr adeiladau rydym yn disodli’r to ac yn gwella darpariaeth gwasanaeth ac mae’r rhyngweithio gyda gweithrediadau a’r farnwriaeth yn agosach nag erioed.  

Aaron: Dw i eisiau sgwrsio am rai o’r prosiectau dw i di clywed amdanynt, oherwydd fy mod yn meddwl eich bod wedi sôn am y to newydd yn y fan yno. Ai’r un yn Llys y Goron Nottingham ydy hwnnw?

Mark: Ie. Mae yna un yn Nottingham, de ni ar fin cwblhau un anferth yn Harrow, mae gennym ddarn anferth o waith rydym yn ei wneud yn Birmingham hefyd.   Felly, mae o ar draws y wlad i gyd.   Mae gennym brosiectau diddorol a chyffrous iawn.

Aaron: Wel, mae’n ymddangos nad oes yna byth ddiwrnod diflas i chi a’ch tîm. Mark, diolch yn fawr iawn i chi am fod ar y podlediad ac ymuno â mi heddiw.

A diolch yn fawr iawn hefyd i fy holl westeion sydd wedi ymuno â mi heddiw i roi golwg y tu ôl i’r llenni ar y gwaith sy’n cael ei wneud ar draws y wlad i wella adeiladau’r llysoedd a thribiwnlysoedd i bawb.

Os hoffech wybod mwy am y prosiectau hyn, gallwch ddarllen ein blog diweddar drwy ymweld ag inside hmcts.blog.gov.uk a chwilio am wella adeiladau llys. Dyna’r cyfan sydd gennym amser iddo am y tro. Tan y tro nesaf, cymerwch ofal a daliwch i wrando.