Breaking barriers: HMCTS and Social Mobility 

Sian: Welcome to Inside HMCTS. I'm Sian, and in this episode we're exploring social mobility — what it means for our organisation, our people, and the communities we serve. I'm joined by three colleagues who are all passionate about making HMCTS a place where your background never holds you back. 

First, I’ll be talking to Jane Wignall, Delivery Director for the Northwest, who’ll share her own journey to senior leadership and the story behind HMCTS' new social mobility strategy.

Then we’ll hear from Jan, a Project Support Officer, and Zak, a Learning and Development Design Officer — they’re both social mobility ambassadors who are taking that work directly into schools and universities. 

Hi Jane, please can you introduce yourself and tell us about your role? 

Jane: Yeah. So I'm Jane, I am the Delivery Director in the Northwest. 

So I'm responsible for all courts and tribunals and delivery of justice across the Northwest. 

Sian: Talk a little bit about your journey to senior leadership in HMCTS. Briefly, where did you start out, and what about your journey has shaped your commitment to social mobility? 

Jane: I joined as a trainee legal advisor but my passion for social mobility started even before that. Growing up, I didn’t really understand what a career was, I didn’t know anyone who’d been to university. I just took myself to university, did a law degree… I fell into the civil service and haven’t looked back. And that’s when I realised, how big the civil service is and how many opportunities there are in the civil service. Social mobility is about being the best you can be and want to be at that time, it’s just you making the best of you and not being worried about your background holding you back.  

Sian: And HMCTS has now got its own social mobility strategy. It's clear that you've got a real personal connection to this. How did it come about in HMCTS or how was it driven to where it is now? 

Jane: Yeah, across HMCTS, we do so much in terms of outreach with schools, with universities, but there was just nothing that was pulling all of that together, and it was quite kind of hit and miss dependent upon where you were, what region you were in. So a group of us see, from a senior leader perspective, a number of regional delivery directors and others who have all got a passion, and this came together. 

Sian: The social mobility strategy. What is that in simple terms? What’s it trying to achieve and what changes are HMCTS staff going to see because that strategy now exists? 

Jane: Well, we’ve got five key aspects of the social mobility toolkit, outreach, trying to make sure that people understand what the civil service is, what HMCTS is. We've also got a focus on in reach, how do we ensure that our people know that there are opportunities and how do they access those opportunities? Data is the other segment of the strategy as well, making sure that we can actually look to see how reflective we are of society.  

Sian: And looking ahead again, what will success look like for the strategy in a couple of years time? Are we talking about more people coming through different routes, or more progression, or putting themselves through for more opportunities? What kind of signs are you going to be looking for that the strategy is making a difference. 

Jane: I would really love to see the number of people who declare their socio economic backgrounds increasing because for me then will land in the message that it's important that we do stop and reflect on kind of whether or not there are barriers for us. I want to look at those figures. I would love to see the social mobility toolkit being used across schools on a on a really regular basis, and I'd like the number of young people coming in to do work experience to be in at least the hundreds. But I'd just like to hear people talking about social mobility a little bit more. 

Sian: You mentioned social mobility ambassadors HMCTS. Can you tell us a bit more about them and what they do? 

Jane: Yeah. So social mobility ambassadors are actually signed up via the Ministry of Justice. We've got a team that's right the way across the Ministry of Justice. So any individual across MoJ, which of which HMCTS is a part, can sign up to become a social mobility ambassador. We've got a think at the moment at almost 600 members of who are ambassadors. 

Sian: Sounds like you've made lots of progress already and there's lots of things happening. What's coming up soon or next that you're excited about? 

Jane: Gosh, there's lots happening now. And particularly on the outreach side of things, we have developed an interactive toolkit for people to use when they go out to schools or universities or community groups.  

Sian: Finally, what message would you give to someone listening who might think the civil service or the justice system isn’t a place where they could work or could succeed? 

Jane: I mean, the justice system is for everybody. We support every member of society, and we should be reflective of that community and that society that we serve. We're here to serve them. The greater difference that we can bring into the organisation from an employee and a staff perspective, the better we can serve those people. So the opportunities are there. They are there for everybody. I'm living proof of that. A number of my senior colleagues living proof of that. And we will do everything we can to support you if if you really do want to progress.  

Sian: Now let's hear from two of our social mobility ambassadors, Jan and Zak, about what that work looks like day to day. Let’s start with a nice easy one, Jan I’ll come to you first, could you introduce yourself, tell us who you are and what your day job is at HMCTS? 

Jan: Hello, my name's Jan. I'm a Project Support Officer, supporting two projects to decommission legacy systems.  

Sian: Thanks, Jan. Zak, over to you. Can you tell us a bit about yourself — what’s your name and what do you do at HMCTS? 

Zak: My names Zak, at HMCTS I am a learning development design officer, so I deliver training to our lovely staff and being in the front line. And we also do workshops with accountability workshops in the learning development space. 

Sian: Staying with you, Zak. Can you tell us what a social mobility ambassador does, and what was it that made you want to get involved? 

Zak: I mean, the first question is what made me want to get involved? Is, is part of my background being from a working class family, always working and achieving goals. However, if I knew that what was out there and they had somebody representing what was out there, the path might have been a bit easier and a bit more effective. For me, it's a passion. It's, you know, it's deeply personal to me that I want that fairness, respect and the opportunity for all really. 

Sian: Amazing. And how would you explain to someone what the actual role of a social mobility ambassador is? What is it that you, you do as part of that work? 

Zak: So what I do as part of that work is if I'm visiting a school or if I'm going to a university, so I tend to print off the QR codes and let them come over with the phones. And then that way opens up an opportunity conversation. I've created a facilitation guide that supports our ambassadors that go to different sites and that gives them a formula and incorporate some of those lovely values and skills that we have as civil servants. So I'll bring them understand what star method is when you're in an application process.  

Sian: Absolutely, that’s really important. What about you Jan? What is it about your social mobility investor role that you enjoy? 

Jan: To me, I, I've been a civil servant for over 30 years and I've had such a wonderful career. And I just want the young students out there to know that they can have the same opportunity as I’ve had. I like to help the young people recognise the potential and just to remind them, when I go to school visits, the opportunity isn't defined by where they started in life, and it's about pushing back imposter syndrome. I know firsthand how powerful encouragement can be. I've had great mentors, team leaders, project managers, and just somebody to guide and help you along the road. It's something that's really important. Sometimes I think these children from socioeconomic backgrounds, their parents haven't had very many interviews in their lifetimes. So, it helps them, it's being a guide for them. 

Sian: Is there a moment from any of the visits you've been on at the schools or the fairs that's kind of stayed with you? Or maybe a conversation you've had, or a question from a young person, or a reaction that surprised you to something that you've told them. 

Jan: A misconception that a lot of the students have is that, you know, oh, do you have to be a lawyer? Do you have to have a law degree to go and work in the courts? And then when I tell them, no, you know, it's not just legal advisers who are in the courts and judges, but we have ushers and digital and IT specialists. We have project managers. We've got a team who organised juries. You know, it's a lot of operational skills.  

Sian: If any of our colleagues in HMCTS or across the wider civil service are listening to this and thinking about becoming an ambassador and getting involved in this work, what would you say to them? 

Jan: I would say, if you're listening to this, even briefly thinking about becoming a social mobility ambassador, you're probably exactly the right kind of person that is needed. You don't need to be an expert speaker. What matters is being willing to share your experiences and show up for someone who might not yet see what is possible for them. I mean, one of the biggest benefits is the chance to make a real tangible difference, but it's not just about impact on others. It's a huge amount in it for yourself as well. It helps you grow professionally. But I just think if you're sitting on the fence, you don't need to have all the answers, volunteer, go and do it. 

Sian: Give it a go, what about you Zac? 

Zak: For myself, looking into the role and for those who are listening, firstly, I would say as Jan just identifies as well, if you're thinking about what you need people like you to apply to becoming a social mobility ambassador, you know, what really matters is the willingness, willingness to do it. Show up. Know that what we're supporting, our younger people, that diversity objective. 

Sian: Yeah, it really sounds like that, a huge thank you to all of our guests today. 

It's clear that social mobility at HMCTS isn't just a strategy on paper — it's something people across the organisation genuinely care about and are giving their time to make a reality. Thanks for listening to Inside HMCTS and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts to hear more from the people behind our courts and tribunals.