Historic Court Buildings: The Royal Courts of Justice, from Queen Victoria to the bear pit - podcast transcript

Sian: From Victorian architecture to landmark cases that have made headlines around the world, some of our courts carry as much history as the cases heard inside them.  

I'm Sian, and in this episode, we're visiting the Royal Courts of Justice, one of the most recognisable court buildings in the country, a site so large it has over 1,000 rooms, 3 and a half miles of corridors, and the biggest Victorian mosaic floor in Europe. 

We're joining Catherine and Richard, who works in the Royal Courts of Justice Estates Office, to find out more. 

Catherine: So looking after the Royal Courts of Justice, it's obviously one of the most recognisable court buildings in our country. What can you tell us about its history and why it was built and things like that? 

Richard: So I understand, it was built to try and get all under one roof as much as they could. When it was first opened, there was only about 18 courts here and what is now court one used to be a barrister's bar. And it's all moved around that because the Lady Chief's court is court 4, but it would have originally been court 3. It's humongous. The building sits on about 13 acres. There's at least 3 1/2 miles of corridor. 

Catherine: How many courtrooms are there? 

 
Richard: Now, we've got about, I suppose, we numbered up to 101. But that's not including the masters hearing rooms and things like that.  

 
Catherine: And do you have a quote 13? 

 
Richard: Oh yes, yes, that's not an issue. Yeah, no problem at all. 

 
Catherine: Not an issue. What was happening in Britain around that time that it opened? 

Richard: It opened in 1882, it started being built in about probably 72 maybe. But they knocked down all the tenements because the site used to have 400 tenements here and they completely just wiped it clean and it sat for two years as a muddy pit. And then, everyone got rather upset with that, but they cleared out all those people. So then George Edmund Street, the architect, he's the one that won the competition because there was 19 different architects and they all done about three or four drawings each. And he won it and he let all the other architects do a court each. So if you look in the courts now, one to 19, say they're all slightly different. 

 
Catherine: That's amazing, so it's all different architects that have done those individual rooms. 

 
Richard: Yeah, that was what he gave them a little gift. 

Catherine: That’s lovely. Have there been any landmark cases? I'm sure there's been loads heard at the RCJ that have helped shape our justice system as we know it today. 

 
Richard:  Only the recent ones that I know, like Prince Harry, Johnny Depp. There has been many, many, many, many in the past. There's so many I wouldn't even know where to start. It is mad when you think about it, about the amount of people that have probably walked through these doors and everything over the 140, say 140 years it's been going, and one of them is Queen Victoria, so... 

 
Catherine: And why was she in the building? 

 
Richard: She opened it. And we have a place and it's called the Bear Garden because she was on a balcony above and looking down at all the barristers arguing and actually was like, oh, it's like a bear pit. 

 
Catherine: And it’s still called that today?  

Richard: Yep! 

Catherine: So speaking about architecture and the detail, are there any favourite details or hidden features that most visitors maybe wouldn't notice that you have in particular? 

 
Richard: There's the main hall has got a loft, so we go in like that team up, buddy up and to cheque smoke heads and things like that and it's also got a big black tower that comes out the top of it, which you can go up. 

 
Catherine: I suppose people look at maybe the windows or the floors and the walls, but they wouldn't look all that way. 

 
Richard: The mosaic floor in the main hall, so I understand, is the biggest Victorian mosaic in Europe. 

Catherine: Wow! So historic, you know, court buildings collect stories over time. Are there any fascinating stories associated with the RCJ that you know of? 

 
Richard: There's always been a story about someone being killed by the clock. So it was 1954, the clock keeper's name was Thomas Manners and it was November the 5th and he died. So, he went up the clock tower, 120 feet above the Strand to turn on the electric motors, which would move the weights. His tie became caught in the moving machinery, resulting in accidental strangulation.  

 
Catherine: Wow, that’s incredible. And if someone had never visited the Royal Courts of Justice and were coming for the first time tomorrow, what's the one thing you'd want them to take away with them from that visit? 

Richard: I'd want them to perhaps understand a bit of the history of it, if they could. I mean, we have our own little self-guided tour pamphlets that the public can use and it's quite good. 

 
Catherine: What's the like best or most interesting fact you think you know about the building or like unusual one that people won't know. 

 
Richard: So the old numbering system used to be from 1 to 1000, because we've got over 1000 rooms. So this is on a public corridor, it's a consultation room. Now above that room, you see the ghost of the old number which is 666 and according to whether it was the builders be having a wind-up or whether it's true, they could not remove that number fully.  

Catherine: It's a bit suspicious that you can't see any of the others. 

Richard: But yeah, I mean, that is an unusual story. I mean, looking at it, I think it would probably be a bit of a wind up, but it's a good old story. It goes back quite a long way. When it, I think it was in the 90s they changed the numbering system, early 90s. 

 
Catherine: Why do you think that it's really important for HMCTS to preserve buildings like this and to continue to use historic buildings like the RCJ? 

 
Richard: I think where at all possible, you should use buildings, historic buildings, as long as they can be looked after and used correctly. And I mean, this does, this does work. 

 
Catherine: And is there anything else you'd like to say, any of the stories that you'd want to put forward about the RCJ? 

 
Richard: I mean, there's a ghost story, isn't there? Like, down the Lady Chief's corridor last year or something, someone was walking down there at 2 in the morning and saw a misty figure, so I turned around and walked away. 

 
Catherine: Well you'd think with that history, somethings got to linger. And is it true that there's going to be a museum or like a gift shop type thing being built there as well?  

 
Richard: Yeah, I mean, the Lady Chief and Michelle, the director, have been, they're working towards that. They're definitely going to do it. They used to be a gift shop and now they're bringing it back, which is brilliant. And yeah, they are looking, you've got the costume gallery and things like that, but they are looking at sort of trying to put something else together, so to show a little bit more of the stuff.  But it's just finding where because this building if sort of packed to the rafters. 

Catherine: That was so good, thank you so much.  

Sian: That's the Royal Courts of Justice, a building with over 140 years of history still hard at work today. From its Victorian mosaic floor to a mysterious room number that just won't disappear, there's clearly more to this court than meets the eye. 

Join us next time as we continue our Historic Court Buildings series, uncovering the stories behind more of our courthouses.