Is that really HMCTS? How to spot a scam - podcast transcript

Sian: Hello and welcome to Inside HMCTS. Today we're talking about scams, something that's affecting more and more people. In particular, we'll be looking at how criminals are pretending to be HMCTS to trick people into handing over money or personal information. 

Scammers can make calls and emails look very convincing, so how can you spot the warning signs, and what should you do if you're unsure? 

I'm Sian, and joining me to talk about this is Matt from the HMCTS Counter Fraud and Investigations team. Hi, Matt. Thanks for joining us on the podcast. 

Matt: Oh, thanks, Sian. Nice to be here. 

Sian: So, we hear a lot about scams, but it feels like they're becoming much more believable. What's changed? 

Matt: I think the criminals use rather sophisticated techniques these days, so they can make their emails look as if they've been sent from a proper company, and they can mimic company logos and branding. 

And if they're going to phone you, they can use a script. For example, there'll be people sitting around the room using a script so they don't veer off their points. 

So, yeah, it all makes it sound very believable. 

Sian: And sometimes scammers will make things feel quite urgent. Why do they do that? 

Matt: Yeah, so it's to panic people, really. And that's the main point – just to panic them into making a payment. 

They kind of look for weaknesses in people. They deal so much with these scams that they're going to find weaknesses in certain age groups and stuff like that. 

Sian: So, HMCTS also suffers from scams. Imagine someone gets a call saying they've missed a court payment or there's a warrant against them. What should they look out for to help them identify if it's a scam or not? 

Matt: Yeah. So, if you get a call, you can always look out for an unusual phone number. You know what it's like when you receive a phone number and you go, "Hmm, I'm not sure about that number. I don't recognise that." 

So, yeah, look out for that. Other things you can be wary of are callers asking for personal information or requesting a payment. 

HMCTS won't phone you to ask for your bank account details. We won't ask you to make a bank transfer using your sort code and account number, and we certainly won't rush you over the phone into trying to panic you into making a payment. 

Other things are maybe they'll greet you with a "sir" or a "madam" rather than your actual name, so there might be a bit of fishing going on. 

That's generally the stuff to look out for. And I think, just in case you're in any doubt, just hang up and find the proper company name on the internet, or from some previous letter that you've had with the company. 

So, yeah, always do that. Be vigilant. 

Sian: Great advice. Emails can also look incredibly genuine now. What should people be checking for in their emails? 

Matt: Yeah. So, you can check the sender's email address. So, for example, communications from HMCTS will end in a justice.gov.uk email address. 

But you'll sometimes find the fraudsters will use an email address with HMCTS in the name of it to make it look official, but the actual email might end in a .com or a .co.uk. 

So, that's a big indicator. And look out for spelling mistakes as well. Spelling mistakes are really common on scams. 

Sian: So, the same advice applies with other sorts of scam emails. Don't click the links. Don't download the attachments. That kind of usual advice. 

Matt: Yeah. Don't do any of that. 

If you're a member of the public, you can report these scams to Report Fraud, or you can contact HMCTS directly and report them to us. 

That's the general advice I'd give. 

Sian: Another scam we're hearing about involves fake enforcement officers. Can you explain what's happening there? 

Matt: Yeah. Unfortunately, this is a rather common scam and has been for a considerable period of time. 

This is another one where the fraudsters can appear to be very convincing. 

Basically, it's fraudsters impersonating enforcement agents or High Court enforcement officers or county court bailiffs. They can contact you by phone or even by email, and they'll pressure you into making a payment. 

They may claim to be from HMCTS or another enforcement agency and generally demand payment for unpaid fines or police warrants, that type of thing. 

They may use phone spoofing to disguise their true origin. So, they might make the call appear that it comes from a trusted government department, and they may also contact you with a spoof email address. 

So, yeah, as I said before, if you do receive an unexpected demand for payment, don't make it over the phone or provide any personal information. 

Sian: How will people know if it is a genuine HMCTS officer? What would they do or not do? 

Matt: Yeah, I mean, if it's a genuine HMCTS officer, they're not going to ask you for personal information over the phone. They're not going to ask you for bank account or sort code details. 

So, that should always set some alarm bells ringing if somebody is trying to do that. 

I mean, hopefully, if it's an HMCTS officer as well, they should be courteous to you. 

A lot of these fraudsters will pressure you. They'll say, "All right, we'll be coming round to your house later if you don't give us any payment." 

And it does panic some people. 

Thankfully, a lot of people realise these scams straight away and do report them. Unfortunately, we do receive notifications where people have paid money to these fraudsters. 

In that instance, we'd advise you to contact your banking provider urgently and to report the scam as well, either to Report Fraud or to the police. 

Sian: That could be scary. I could understand why people might feel pressured, but if that's the case, just hang up. 

Matt: Yeah, definitely. Just hang up. 

Quick-fire myth-busting 

Sian: So, we're going to do a quick-fire myth-busting round of questions to capture everything that we've learned from you today. 

Question number one: if the caller ID says HMCTS, it must be genuine. 

Matt: No. Unfortunately not. 

As I briefly alluded to before, there's a practice called spoofing. So, this is where scammers will deliberately falsify caller ID to disguise the true origin of the call. 

The call may pop up showing it's from a trusted government department when it's not. 

If you receive a call from an unknown number, don't answer it. You don't have to ever answer a call from an unknown number. 

If somebody really wants to get in touch with you, they'll leave you a voicemail, and then you can verify that. 

Sian: Great, easy advice to follow. 

Next question: scammers only target certain types of people. 

Matt: I had to go and check this information, so I had a little look on the Office for National Statistics. And apparently, yeah, that's not true. 

It says the proportion of victims of scams by age demographic varies significantly. Younger adults, particularly those aged 18 to 59, are more likely to report losing money to fraud compared to older adults. 

This group is also more affected by online shopping fraud, investment scams and job scams. 

In contrast, older adults, especially those aged 70 and over, report higher individual losses but are less likely to report fraud they have encountered. 

Data suggests these scams are affecting every age group. 

Sian: Scammers are just looking for an opportunity and hoping that anyone will respond to any of their emails or phone calls that they're making. 

Matt: Definitely, yeah. 

Sian: Next question: it's rude to hang up on a phone call. 

Matt: Nope. No. Thoroughly encouraged. 

If you definitely suspect that you're the victim of a scam call, hang up. 

Sian: Great. Easy advice. 

And our final question: if I'm unsure, I should check independently. 

Matt: Yes, always check independently. 

As briefly mentioned before, you can always go onto the internet and verify any contact details independently. 

Or maybe you've got some previous correspondence from a company you're dealing with. You can get the contact details from that. 

Sian: Brilliant. That's amazing advice that I think will definitely help anyone who's received a phone call or email that they're not sure is from us or not. 

If someone thinks they're a victim of a scam by email or phone, what can they do to report that? 

Matt: Yeah. So, I'd always recommend reporting it to Report Fraud. That's the new name for Action Fraud. They're the UK's home for reporting cybercrime and fraud. 

If you receive a suspected scam email as well, you can report it by emailing report@phishing.gov.uk, and that reports it to the National Cyber Security Centre. 

So, there's two options for you. 

Sian: Wow, that's great advice. 

Matt, thanks for talking us through how people can protect themselves from these scams. 

The key message is simple: Stop, Think and Check. 

Scammers rely on creating panic and urgency. Taking a moment to pause can prevent you from becoming a victim. 

Don't feel pressured to make a payment or share your personal information. 

If you want to find out more about the scams currently targeting the public and how to report them, visit the HMCTS scams page on GOV.UK. 

Thanks for listening to Inside HMCTS, and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts to hear more from the people behind our courts and tribunals.